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Old March 25th, 2015, 04:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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MPG - Common misconception

I have noticed a pattern on these and other forums. People think a CAI or new filter will improve MPG. This is false and to confirm it myself I read a very extensive case study I will have to link later (its nearly 6am and Ive had some wine)

Your ECU will regulate the gasoline sent to the combustion chamber based on how much Oxygen is also going in. More Oxygen = more Fuel, the ECU maintains the air to fuel ratio automatically and you cant change this. I wasn't even able to change it with my $500 Diablo sport programmer on my Ford.

A new filter will not improve MPG, I don't know why this notion exists but as stated, you're not changing the air to fuel ratio programmed to the ECU when you put in a new filter or upgrade to a CAI.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escapefate View Post
I have noticed a pattern on these and other forums. People think a CAI or new filter will improve MPG. This is false and to confirm it myself I read a very extensive case study I will have to link later (its nearly 6am and Ive had some wine)

Your ECU will regulate the gasoline sent to the combustion chamber based on how much Oxygen is also going in. More Oxygen = more Fuel, the ECU maintains the air to fuel ratio automatically and you cant change this. I wasn't even able to change it with my $500 Diablo sport programmer on my Ford.

A new filter will not improve MPG, I don't know why this notion exists but as stated, you're not changing the air to fuel ratio programmed to the ECU when you put in a new filter or upgrade to a CAI.
Ok. While I agree with all the information above, I believe the "notion" that people have about this concept is as follows:

1) If you increase the hp in an engine, it decreases the amount of throttle needed to acheive the same work from the engine.

2) The engine will still require the same amount of fuel to perform the same amount of work right? Well, that depends on whether we're talking about accelerating or simply droning along at a steady pace. I can speak from experience that a cai will increase fuel economy in that case. I have owned three different vehicles that I have seen an increase in mpg (that I figured myself at fill ups) after installing a cai. All three vehicles were used to commute over 120 miles per day.

3) Some people might not see the increase in mpg because they're too busy stepping on the throttle to hear that sweet sound or to get that "seat of the pants feel" lol.

In any case, you are not going to see a big enough increase in mpg to justify the price of a new high end cai. Without tuning and other mods you really aren't going to feel much "seat of the pants" performace increase from one either.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 04:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i have been recording my MPG on a tank to tank basis and i do not keep the pedal to the metal. i drive to and from work on a regular basis and i have seen reduced fuel consumption on my commutes. now when i step on it on driving around doing nothing days , YES i do use a shit load more fuel.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 04:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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here is the study from Oak Ridge National Laboratory

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs...02_26_2009.pdf

Results show that clogging the air filter has no significant effect on the fuel economy of the newer
vehicles (all fuel injected with closed-loop control
and one equipped with MDS). The engine control
systems were able to maintain the desired AFR rega
rdless of intake restrictions, and therefore fuel
consumption was not increased.
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Old April 13th, 2015, 10:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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so fuel consumption is NOT increased, it rather stays the same.

and i just noticed your image changed. where in Kentucky are you? i will be visiting my Aunt in about a month in Corbin
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Old April 13th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Every car reacts differently to environmental conditions, period. Humidity, heat, altitude, cold air, etc. The way my engine performs at 4000ft vs sea level makes a big difference. Here at home I get 22mpg, hwy 24mpg on 90 octane, vs. lower altitude driving 25mpg, hwy driving of 33mpg on 93 octane. 33mpg is 6mpg higher then what the factor gas mileage is rated at... and yes I've had a CAI on since I bought my car.

Now I do agree with some of the .gov test; however, there is much more to that article and tests that were and were not performed. Removing a filter does not equate to a CAI's performance. I do understand that the sensors do manage fuel flow to get optimized fuel mileage. However in the case were the filter is removed you can/will get dirty air coming across the MAF sensor that can cause issues. Prof, some of our members have installed short ram intakes that cause codes because the source of air is just to close to the MAF sensor and also sucks in more hot air that will cause the ECM/PCM to think that the engine is performing in desert heat.

I know you believe a CAI makes no difference in mileage and performance, and that's all right with me, but I know otherwise. Until you do your own tests with a CAI (a good one) you will never experience it for yourself and will not be able to prove, or disprove your theory.
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Old April 13th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovisman View Post
Every car reacts differently to environmental conditions, period. Humidity, heat, altitude, cold air, etc. The way my engine performs at 4000ft vs sea level makes a big difference. Here at home I get 22mpg, hwy 24mpg on 90 octane, vs. lower altitude driving 25mpg, hwy driving of 33mpg on 93 octane. 33mpg is 6mpg higher then what the factor gas mileage is rated at... and yes I've had a CAI on since I bought my car.

Now I do agree with some of the .gov test; however, there is much more to that article and tests that were and were not performed. Removing a filter does not equate to a CAI's performance. I do understand that the sensors do manage fuel flow to get optimized fuel mileage. However in the case were the filter is removed you can/will get dirty air coming across the MAF sensor that can cause issues. Prof, some of our members have installed short ram intakes that cause codes because the source of air is just to close to the MAF sensor and also sucks in more hot air that will cause the ECM/PCM to think that the engine is performing in desert heat.

I know you believe a CAI makes no difference in mileage and performance, and that's all right with me, but I know otherwise. Until you do your own tests with a CAI (a good one) you will never experience it for yourself and will not be able to prove, or disprove your theory.
My hypothesis stands on the closed loop system the ECU uses to adjust air to fuel ratio. More air = more gasoline. Less air = less gasoline. I cant fathom how more air flow would result in less fuel consumption. I can imagine a scenario where a really REALLY good CAI actually sends in colder air to the engine and improves power and thus less throttle response is needed for the same feeling of acceleration.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 02:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Fuel consumption is the same, but it produces more power due to the fact that the cold air it uses is denser (more oxygen to burn, more power). Therefore, you reach optimal speeds (speed limits) more efficiently with greater power. Theoretically if you don't slam on the gas all day you'll get better mpg...but who can resist lol
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Old April 14th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i agree DSM who can resist the additional power. i LOVE speed, but as a daily A-B driver i dont' get to do a lot of that on the way to work. now the mountians are a different story
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Old April 14th, 2015, 03:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm sorry but Just reading a case study doesn't make you a expert on this situation, other wise everyone is a expert lol, we all have our opinions and have all experienced different situations, for instance when I first bought my car, I got 24-26 mpg, I put on a CAI and after that got a average of 27-28 mpg, so how do you explain that??? And that was months of constantly calculating my mpg,
Now that I have Intake, Exhaust, better Plugs, Intake Resonator Delete, and so forth, I get 30 mpg average on hwy, with also months of calculations, explain this then
Also all this is WITHOUT a aftermarket tune
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Old April 14th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I just bought the hackish tune, and once I get fined tune,
we will see what type of mpg I am getting soon
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Old April 14th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escapefate View Post
My hypothesis stands on the closed loop system the ECU uses to adjust air to fuel ratio. More air = more gasoline. Less air = less gasoline. I cant fathom how more air flow would result in less fuel consumption. I can imagine a scenario where a really REALLY good CAI actually sends in colder air to the engine and improves power and thus less throttle response is needed for the same feeling of acceleration.
There is a point of acceleration were the closed loop goes to an open loop while accelerating. Whether in an open loop, or closed loop the ECM/PCM will advance, or retard timing to create the best scenario of power and economy. With a stock air box there is more air turbulence created then a straight tube CAI, and yes the air coming through a CAI in the Summer is about 10 degrees cooler then that of a stock air box. In the Winter it can be up to 20 degrees cooler. I have Dash DAQ so I've seen the results for myself.

Now I do agree with, more air = more gasoline, and less air = less gasoline used. However, under your theory... installing a super charge, or turbo would create the same results, I.E. no extra power, or gas difference, because of the open and closed loop system, correcting the air fuel mixture, correct?? Your right, now we are talking about forced air... How about headers, larger diameter exhaust system, or just changing out the stock muffler with a high performance straight through muffler?? Why do these mods improve HP, or do they??
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Old April 15th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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A CAI is designed to be less restrictive as well as having less turbulence. This means less horsepower loss from the "drag" of vacuum in the intake manifold. This is the concept behind CAI's that gives any vehicle more power. The engine has to work less to draw in fresh air, allowing more power to make it through the drivetrain.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 03:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well I would like to back what Escape is saying. I am not here to call anybody a liar, but personal testing has confirmed what Escape is trying to say too. I put it on and saw a near 5 mpg LOSS with an Injen CAI. If you put a CAI and it has given you gains, thats awesome, that is what it should do, and what you paid for. However, putting one on, with a (nearly) fresh tune up, good gas/filters, all else being equal etc etc, my mpg plummeted (and it wasn't because I was stepping on it either, quite the opposite actually). There are a lot of factors like Clovis has pointed out too, I think it is simply results will vary. I have said in the past tho, I would consider buying one again just for the sound... that is undeniable
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Old April 15th, 2015, 06:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yea and I agree results will very with everyone, just depends on that specific vehicle
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