2009 GS W/ OBX LT Headers - PROBLEMS

[PearlGreenNMean]

******* CHECK BOTTOM OF THIS POST FOR FINAL UPDATE!********
Okay, so I get problems out of the wahzoo with these headers. I tried foulers, didn't work. Now im trying spacers, doesnt entirely work.
Okay. I have come prepared.
2009 GS - Stock with OBX LT SS headers + midpipe. These were professionally welded and we installed them. I know we installed them right, so installation issues is not a PROBLEM!!
Just so we are clear with that...
Here are the pictures.
OVERHEAD:OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RIGHT SIDE PLUGS:OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LEFT SIDE PLUGS:OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUNGED O2 SENSOR:OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RIGHT SIDE OF HEADERS - SPACED O2:OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


******ALL OF THESE PICTURES ARE OLD! PLEASE CHECK MY ALBUM, OR THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE FOR NEW IMAGES!*****

***CURRENT ERRORS: NONE, CATALYST BELOW THRESHOLD (no cats, no heat build up)***
Try to stay on topic... I dont want comments saying OBX sucks, OBX this, that... blah blah blah.

[stangcobra]

Double space them, that got rid of my p0174 code
sorry I couldnt be more help

[PearlGreenNMean]

Hmm. Okay. I will go out and find those others then and try that...

[Gravey]

Just wondering if you guys are also using the obx 3rd cat delete pipe? i think thats supposed to provided a place for the lower o2 sensors some one correct me if im wrong.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Gravey

Just wondering if you guys are also using the obx 3rd cat delete pipe? i think thats supposed to provided a place for the lower o2 sensors some one correct me if im wrong.

Just the OBX LT SS headers and the mid pipe.

I went out for a ride with the double spacers... Same shit, different codes.

So far I have two,
P0300 - Cylinder misfire (this is the big one... dont know wtf to do with it)
P0137 - o2 ckt low volts 12. (number 12) Idk wtf to do about that...
So yeah. -.-

[Gravey]

does the misfire code always come back?
are you using one of these with the headers?
OBX CAT DELETE PIPE EXHAUST 06-09 ECLIPSE MIVEC 4G69 - eBay (item 330490562646 end time Jun-26-11 20:31:42 PDT)

[zumspeedsupra]

You only need spacers on the black wires I think. And the bung that was welded onto mine was not that far down, it was up near the other 3 sensors. also if you had to extend any O2 wires make sure they are not mixed up. Only things I can think of man, hope you get this fixed

[Clovisman]

I don't like the placement of the O2 sensors, note the placement of the O2 sensors on the stock setup. You need to have some distance between the pre-cat sensors and the after cat sensors.

If you look at your right bank setup, the pre-cat and after cat are placed just about the same place, where your left bank setup, you have distance between the two O2 sensors.

The rear sensors are dependent on how much exhaust gas they read, i.e. there needs to be a temperature difference between the pre-cat sensors (very hot) and the rear sensors being (hot). Now the ECU also reads and compares both voltage readings between both banks.

Looking at your right bank your pre-cat sensor would be reading 5v, and with the placement of the after cat sensor even with the spacer installed is probably reading 4v, inturn the ECU sees that it is running rich so it is leaning out your mixture, hence not enough fuel and you are getting a misfire.

Looking at your left bank your pre-cat sensor would be reading 5v and because the after cat sensor is placed far enough down stream with a spacer installed, it would be reading a 2v or 3v, and the ECU is seeing that within limits.

However, the reading that the ECU is reading between your over-all voltages between the right and left banks, and they don't match, so the ECU is throwing your engine into safe mode.

This is the first time I've seen a good picture of the OBX headers for the GS and I don't like the bung setup. Your right side should be setup more like the left side is, and the spacing for the O2 bungs on each bank should have the same spacing. Otherwise it will be really hard trying to setup the spacers for the rear O2 sensors, i.e. how big the spacer hole/s needs to be so each after cat sensor reads the same voltages.

I hope I explained this so it all make sense. But look at the stock setup and place the O2 sensors in a like fashion. This way if you have to adjust the hole openings for the rear sensor with the spacer, you are safe to say you can drill both spacers with the same size drill to get the same voltage readings.

So if you are getting a code because sensor 2, bank 1, has a low voltage reading then you need to enlarge the hole on the spacer to get mor heat/gas.

If you are getting a code because sensor 2, bank 1, has a high voltage reading, then you need to either add a spacer to reduce the amount of heat/gas on the sensor, or you drilled the hole to big and you need to start with a new spacer.

When drilling these holes on the spacers, it doesn't take much to open the hole to where it is to big, so be careful on what size drill bit you use to open the hole/s.

OEM Pre-Cat Manifolds. Page 15-17. Also the after-cat sensors are located on the exhaust pipe that is not shown on this picture:
http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/2006...0004600-15.pdf

Also, always, always, post the DTC Codes so we know what's going on!!

[zumspeedsupra]

Very informative info man!! Here is my OBX long tube set-up

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by zumspeedsupra

Very informative info man!! Here is my OBX long tube set-up

Any problems with codes??

At least your O2 bungs looks more evenly set on each bank. so the rear sensors are more likely reading the same voltages.

[Ralliartize It]

Having that many o2 sensors is just awful....

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by Ralliartize It

Having that many o2 sensors is just awful....

I agree!! I think the designer of this exhaust was watching a
Frankenstein movie when he designed the manifold. He must
have thought four-electrodes were better then two !!

[HomesickAlien]

For the life of me I can't understand why people would buy these headers unless you are a mechanic by trade of 20+ years and also a professional welder.

I mean almost every single person it's just problem after problem....

VERY poorly designed in my opinion.

I know the RRE headers can take a little adjusting, but NOTHING like this. Just terrible.

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by HomesickAlien

For the life of me I can't understand why people would buy these headers unless you are a mechanic by trade of 20+ years and also a professional welder.

I mean almost every single person it's just problem after problem....

VERY poorly designed in my opinion.

I know the RRE headers can take a little adjusting, but NOTHING like this. Just terrible.

The thing is, we've had several people who have installed OBX headers without any problems. Like with any mod or repair, we have a service manual, use it, very valuable information in that manual.

I wonder how many of these people actually use a torque wrench when they installed their header plate/s. Yeah that's some thick-ass metal, but if don't torque that plate it will warp within a year or less, and then it will leak... good-by headers.

There are so many threads here on how to install headers it's pathetic, all you need to do is read the posts and learn from other peoples mistakes, and/or learn from the ones that did their job correctly. I.E. before you even buy your mod, or do a repair, you should be 98% clear on what you are doing.

But you are right, people think you just remove some nuts and bolts, slap a new part in there, tighten the nuts and bolts back-up and it suppose to work. I'm all these jobs are easy enough if you do a little reasearch.

[HomesickAlien]

I definitely agree with everything you said, and I myself research every part I buy and learn everything I can about it before it gets to me -- you usually have at least a 5-day window while it's being shipped to read, read, and read some more. If I've done my due diligence and STILL have a problem, that's when I come to the board and say 'Help please'.

But like you outlined earlier, I just think the OBX headers are very poorly designed....

[DustinH]

Originally Posted by HomesickAlien

I definitely agree with everything you said, and I myself research every part I buy and learn everything I can about it before it gets to me -- you usually have at least a 5-day window while it's being shipped to read, read, and read some more. If I've done my due diligence and STILL have a problem, that's when I come to the board and say 'Help please'.

But like you outlined earlier, I just think the OBX headers are very poorly designed....

^^^ If they are poorly designed then so are ripp lts. The main issue with obx is they are mass produced. So theyre cheaper and the means theyre not a high quality header. But in the end theyre just 4 tubes 2 flanges welded together....basically the same as ripp mods and rre. So i dont see how its the header making the cars freak out. Its the way the o2 sensors are set up. After i installed mine and finally figured out the spacer trick. I never had a problem with them, besides the piping be thin.

[DustinH]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

I don't like the placement of the O2 sensors, note the placement of the O2 sensors on the stock setup. You need to have some distance between the pre-cat sensors and the after cat sensors.

Do you think it would help them with the codes if they capped off the sensor bung thats on the drivers side closest to the radiator. Then weld a bung down at the bottom drivers side of the header. Making it the same set up as oem and rre. 2 up top and 2 at the bottom? With spacers of course.

[HomesickAlien]

I think it definitely would.

The closer you can get to tricking your ECU to thinking it's stock the better, IMO.

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by DustinH

Do you think it would help them with the codes if they capped off the sensor bung thats on the drivers side closest to the radiator. Then weld a bung down at the bottom drivers side of the header. Making it the same set up as oem and rre. 2 up top and 2 at the bottom? With spacers of course.

Originally Posted by HomesickAlien

I think it definitely would.

The closer you can get to tricking your ECU to thinking it's stock the better, IMO.

Very true. As they are placed right now on the OBX headers, all four sensor are getting the same amount of gas/heat, so all four sensors are reading the same voltage. Even with the spacers installed on the two rear sensors, the heat source (exhaust from the heads) is so close to those sensors with spacers, when you try to adjust the holes size (how much gas/heat hits the sensor) it will be very difficult to adjust.

If the bung spacings were install similar to the stock manifold, like the RRE headers are, it becomes much easer to adjust the amount of gas that gets to the sensors. In fact if we had a mathematician figure what temperature drop was required for the sensors to read correctly, you could place the two rear bungs far enough downstream were you wouldn't need any spacers at all. Hence why we install spacers so as to pull the O2 sensors out of the exhaust stream so they don't get as much heat for a proper voltage reading.

Under ideal conditions, if both sensors are reading a low voltage, then you increase the size of the hole on the tip of the spacer to get more gas/heat to the sensor. Like wise, if the sensor voltage is reading to high you want to pull the sensor out of the exhaust stream, or have a smaller hole on the tip of the spacer.

But bottom line like you guys are saying, both upper bungs need to be "X" inches away from the exhaust ports (valves), then rear bungs evenly spaced "X" inches away from from the upper bungs. i don't know what RRE is using but 12", 16", or whatever.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

Very true. As they are placed right now on the OBX headers, all four sensor are getting the same amount of gas/heat, so all four sensors are reading the same voltage. Even with the spacers installed on the two rear sensors, the heat source (exhaust from the heads) is so close to those sensors with spacers, when you try to adjust the holes size (how much gas/heat hits the sensor) it will be very difficult to adjust.

If the bung spacings were install similar to the stock manifold, like the RRE headers are, it becomes much easer to adjust the amount of gas that gets to the sensors. In fact if we had a mathematician figure what temperature drop was required for the sensors to read correctly, you could place the two rear bungs far enough downstream were you wouldn't need any spacers at all. Hence why we install spacers so as to pull the O2 sensors out of the exhaust stream so they don't get as much heat for a proper voltage reading.

Under ideal conditions, if both sensors are reading a low voltage, then you increase the size of the hole on the tip of the spacer to get more gas/heat to the sensor. Like wise, if the sensor voltage is reading to high you want to pull the sensor out of the exhaust stream, or have a smaller hole on the tip of the spacer.

But bottom line like you guys are saying, both upper bungs need to be "X" inches away from the exhaust ports (valves), then rear bungs evenly spaced "X" inches away from from the upper bungs. i don't know what RRE is using but 12", 16", or whatever.

The problem is that there was 3 pre bunged, we did that one on the bottom. So, OBX bunged it up there. Why would they do that if it will throw a code. It runs like shit no matter what I do. Double spacers, spacer/fouler, double fouler, single spacer/single fouler... Damnit it pisses me off.

If you say these things are bolt on, you're full of crap. So, is there any solutions that you guys can say instead of talking about quality? >.>

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by zumspeedsupra

You only need spacers on the black wires I think. And the bung that was welded onto mine was not that far down, it was up near the other 3 sensors. also if you had to extend any O2 wires make sure they are not mixed up. Only things I can think of man, hope you get this fixed

Man It puzzles me how you got yours to work. I want to say putting a cai on would help just for the sake of getting it LOL but how are your wires set up? Are they crossed or something?

[Clovisman]

No mods are really plug & play. You have to research and understand what you are getting ready to do, use the service manual for guidence, read Threads/Posts, and learn from other peoples pro's, or mistakes. Then if something is not clear, ask all the questions you want for clearification. Every mod I did, I read the service manual, studied all the posts, weighed all my options, and in some cases asked the proverbial questions to the right folks. But when it came time to do the installs, I was 100% sure what I was doing.

But looking at some pics of the OBX headers for the first time, and compairing them to the RIPP or RRE headers, I would have had some questions on the spacing of the O2 bungs. I mean they are not even spaced like the OEM manifolds are spaced.

Even when I had questions concerning the extending the harnesses I was told the wrong info. I did some research in the service manual and found the correct answers. I.E. the like colored wires can not be crossed, otherwise the circuit will run backwards and give false readings to the ECU.

[229boss]

well i found some obx headers for 150 from eclipsemodder....im gonna try to decipher the issue and i will keep you all updated.i know someone in florida can fix it

[FeaRlezZ]

rre. . . any longtubes r gonna b a bitch

[PearlGreenNMean]

Well just an update for you all, I bunged the right side black o2 wire down to where the other custom bunged one was, and the only codes I throw is that fucking misfire and too lean. Running NO spacers. If I run spacers, I get low ckt (Not enough heat)

[roman lujan]

Then on that spacer try opening it up a bit more and that may do the trick

[mikes07]

Ever think the 3rd bung is a pre welded afr bung and the delete pipe has the other two bungs for o2?

[haladafs]

P01037 or your second code there is from a lower o2 sensor it means it's broken since low voltage

[trevroar]

Its recommended that for anyone going LT headers to have it accompanied by and AEM FIC, which makes it easier to deal with the rear o2 sensors.

AEM FIC, Open Exhaust & Rear o2 Sensors OBD2 Codes (fix)

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by mikes07

Ever think the 3rd bung is a pre welded afr bung and the delete pipe has the other two bungs for o2?

What...?? Please check your spelling and grammatical structure... I don't even understand you...

Originally Posted by roman lujan

Then on that spacer try opening it up a bit more and that may do the trick

...Open up a spacer... Bro, its a tube, I can't open a spacer any more lol. And with the spacers, it gets low ckt.

Originally Posted by haladafs

P01037 or your second code there is from a lower o2 sensor it means it's broken since low voltage

All O2's Tested, 100% okay.... Wow... Are you serious? Low ckt means not enough heat, high ckt means too much heat...
Wow. Did you even know what you were talking about, or were you beating around the bush?...
Read before you comment, or you will look dumb... Please.

[roman lujan]

Dude calm down okay the opening on the spacer what does it look like if it's like rre's spacer it has a hole in the middle of it drill that hole just a bit bigger in turn it let's more heat a gases to flow to the o2

[haladafs]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

What...?? Please check your spelling and grammatical structure... I don't even understand you...



...Open up a spacer... Bro, its a tube, I can't open a spacer any more lol. And with the spacers, it gets low ckt.



All O2's Tested, 100% okay.... Wow... Are you serious? Low ckt means not enough heat, high ckt means too much heat...
Wow. Did you even know what you were talking about, or were you beating around the bush?...
Read before you comment, or you will look dumb... Please.

Woah woah easy now, was just trying to help. I was on my cell phone. I had the code from before i sold rre's shorties. It threw the code first, then some how the oxygen sensor itself ended up going bad. I bought the spacers as well, but never kept my mods long enough to put it on. I'm not trying to troll, I was just trying to give you a basic analysis of the code. The obx would be a very good header with a small redesign on OBX's part. I agree with Trevor, use the fic to trick the ecu.

[trevroar]

Ok man, forget the AEM FIC thing, you're definitely not ready for it, and I don't want to see you blow up your engine.

Here's the issue I see with the placement of your rear o2 sensors. Your left side rear o2 sensor is much lower than your right side rear sensor. Your installer should have installed them both to the same distance from the top of the manifold. Try double spacing the right sensor, and single space the left sensor.

Also, those rear o2 sensors aren't going to cause misfires, they're only there to monitor that the catalytic converts are working. That's were the spacers come in, you are trying to fool our overly sensitive ECU into thinking its there.

The front o2 sensors will definitely cause misfires, and I notice that your left front 02 sensor (the one with the grey wire) the wire is pulled tight. Give that some slack if you can. You're right side sensor also looks like its rubbing against a bracket.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by roman lujan

Dude calm down okay the opening on the spacer what does it look like if it's like rre's spacer it has a hole in the middle of it drill that hole just a bit bigger in turn it let's more heat a gases to flow to the o2

I'm sorry, late night, kinda pissed. I have a defouler and a spacer. Im using neither, because it gives me low ckt codes. It is running with the O2 sensor in the mainstream. No spacers what so ever, just O2 sensor in the bung.

Originally Posted by haladafs

Woah woah easy now, was just trying to help. I was on my cell phone. I had the code from before i sold rre's shorties. It threw the code first, then some how the oxygen sensor itself ended up going bad. I bought the spacers as well, but never kept my mods long enough to put it on. I'm not trying to troll, I was just trying to give you a basic analysis of the code. The obx would be a very good header with a small redesign on OBX's part. I agree with Trevor, use the fic to trick the ecu.

I'm sorry. Like I said, late night at work, everyone gets pissy at those nights. Uhmm. Hmm. Well, I'm only throwing 2 codes right now man. Too lean bank 2, and misfire. The low ckt and high ckt means heat distribution is off, which mine is fine. My O2 wires are working 100%. And yeah, OBX shipped it with 3 bungs. They need to get their head outta their ass. Its just the bung and the O2 sensor. No spacers/foulers. The O2 sensor is actually in the exhaust, and its "Too lean" Which is the opposite of what I expected... :[

Originally Posted by trevroar

Ok man, forget the AEM FIC thing, you're definitely not ready for it, and I don't want to see you blow up your engine.

Here's the issue I see with the placement of your rear o2 sensors. Your left side rear o2 sensor is much lower than your right side rear sensor. Your installer should have installed them both to the same distance from the top of the manifold. Try double spacing the right sensor, and single space the left sensor.

Also, those rear o2 sensors aren't going to cause misfires, they're only there to monitor that the catalytic converts are working. That's were the spacers come in, you are trying to fool our overly sensitive ECU into thinking its there.

The front o2 sensors will definitely cause misfires, and I notice that your left front 02 sensor (the one with the grey wire) the wire is pulled tight. Give that some slack if you can. You're right side sensor also looks like its rubbing against a bracket.

Well, Clovis explained to me that any major O2 misreading, will cause a misfire. And I can't pay 450$ for that fic... I might as well get RIPP or something... Which I won't. I'm on a really tight budget. And yeah, I can't do anything about the rubbing. but the sleeves are just fine. The right side has plenty of slack, its the left side thats kinda tense.

Again... I apologize to anyone I snapped at. Just a bad night, and these headers are supremely pissing me off.

[PearlGreenNMean]

RIGHT SIDE:

LEFT SIDE:

OVERVIEW:

[roman lujan]

Okay dude so those pics you have up top Is your current setup am I right. Cus withthat setup I see a problem they are space way to far you should have put it in the general area of the other three bungs let me take a pic of mine and show your where it should be me and dustin were running this same set up till he got a rre header but let ne take a pic I have been code free since I put them on

[trevroar]

PearlGreen, OBX header, are almost an exact replica of the RIPP headers, so you'd be in the same position either way. Roman, I ran my o2 sensors after the intermediate pipe on my set. However, I had an FIC and never had to mess with defoulers.

PearlGreen, have your codes reset, and let us know what codes come back. Any codes in regards to the rear o2 sensors should not affect drivability. The misfire codes or any codes with the front o2 sensors are going to be an issue.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by roman lujan

Okay dude so those pics you have up top Is your current setup am I right. Cus withthat setup I see a problem they are space way to far you should have put it in the general area of the other three bungs let me take a pic of mine and show your where it should be me and dustin were running this same set up till he got a rre header but let ne take a pic I have been code free since I put them on

I know man I know! I wasn't there so I couldn't stress that point! Freaking old timers who work on 88's think you can just half ass a 2009. Basically like zum speed's? I can't rebung anymore. My headers will be so riddled with bungs it will look ridiculous... Can't take them back for warranty because obx has ZERO customer support.

Originally Posted by trevroar

PearlGreen, OBX header, are almost an exact replica of the RIPP headers, so you'd be in the same position either way. Roman, I ran my o2 sensors after the intermediate pipe on my set. However, I had an FIC and never had to mess with defoulers.

PearlGreen, have your codes reset, and let us know what codes come back. Any codes in regards to the rear o2 sensors should not affect drivability. The misfire codes or any codes with the front o2 sensors are going to be an issue.

I know, but - RIPP has preset O2 locations for all plugs, not just 3.
I have reset them twice so far since the re bung, spacer delete, and I've gotten too lean bank 2, and for pending, too lean bank 2 +misfire for both times i've reset and re read after driving 15 miles.

[trevroar]

Ripp headers also only came with three bungs, trust me I owned them, just sold them. Do this, unplug both rear o2 sensors from the connectors and reset the codes. Leave the o2 sensors disconnected and drive some more. Check the codes again, and see if you are still getting the misfire code.

If the misfire codes does come back, do this, take one of the rear o2 sensors and swap it with the front o2 sensor. Reset the computer, drive again, check codes again. If the misfire code comes back, replace the other front o2 sensor.. reset the codes, drive, check again. I'm suspecting that one of the front o2 sensors had been damaged during the install. Keep the rear o2's unplug for this the entire time.

All the o2 sensors are the same, only difference is the length of the wires, so choose the rear o2 sensor with the longest wire for testing the front o2'

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by trevroar

Ripp headers also only came with three bungs, trust me I owned them, just sold them. Do this, unplug both rear o2 sensors from the connectors and reset the codes. Leave the o2 sensors disconnected and drive some more. Check the codes again, and see if you are still getting the misfire code.

Ahh. Well one of those headers came with 4 pre bunged holes lol.
Okay. Haha I think that will cause the car to bog out possibly... ;P We'll see though.