Ohms of Downstream??? GS

[PearlGreenNMean]

Alright I have OBX-R LT headers... the whole O2 sensor running lean and what not is pissing me off, Spacers aren't working, so now im just going to trick the damn thing using resisters...

Does anyone know the Ohm of the two Downstream O2 sensors on a GS?

NOTE: I used search, didn't find anything.

thank you!!

[Clovisman]

You need to start here and read a lot so you understand how the O2 sensors system works. Each sensor has two circuits that the ECU reads, each bank has two O2 sensors, that the ECU computes the difference of those voltage values to determine how much fuel should be delivered to each bank. So it's not just how many Ohms the ECU is reading, but also voltage differences between the front and rear sensors.

http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/2006...05800A-13A.pdf

But for one of the checks the Standard value: 11 − 18 ohms [at 20°C (68°F)], now what the values are when the probe is let's say 800 degrees, then what should the values be when you are at WOT and at a 1000 degrees. And the same will hold true with the voltage differences.

The quickest and easiest way to fix your problem is to space the O2 bungs simular to that of the RRE and/or RIPP headers. I don't know if you had to extend any of your harnesses, but if you did, make sure they were extended properly.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

You need to start here and read a lot so you understand how the O2 sensors system works. Each sensor has two circuits that the ECU reads, each bank has two O2 sensors, that the ECU computes the difference of those voltage values to determine how much fuel should be delivered to each bank. So it's not just how many Ohms the ECU is reading, but also voltage differences between the front and rear sensors.

http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/2006...05800A-13A.pdf

But for one of the checks the Standard value: 11 − 18 ohms [at 20°C (68°F)], now what the values are when the probe is let's say 800 degrees, then what should the values be when you are at WOT and at a 1000 degrees. And the same will hold true with the voltage differences.

The quickest and easiest way to fix your problem is to space the O2 bungs simular to that of the RRE and/or RIPP headers. I don't know if you had to extend any of your harnesses, but if you did, make sure they were extended properly.

You know your shit. Just saying. You're like an encyclopedia.

So in essence, I can't do that... Damnit. Im running out of options.
I'm wondering if I can just claim that its malfunctioning, get a new set of headers, and bung it straight across with RRE spacers like zumspeed did. Hey, whats the difference between RRE spacers and Autozone spacers? Material?
Thanks a lot. You're wisdom is appreciated here. ;D

[229boss]

i havent even installed my obx headers yet? ouch! i dont know what to do now

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by 229boss

i havent even installed my obx headers yet? ouch! i dont know what to do now

You're GS right? Ask Zum speed for a picture of his set up, and buy RRE spacers, you'll be fine. I promise. I just got arrogant and put the o2 sensor where i thought it should be.

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

You know your shit. Just saying. You're like an encyclopedia.

So in essence, I can't do that... Damnit. Im running out of options.
I'm wondering if I can just claim that its malfunctioning, get a new set of headers, and bung it straight across with RRE spacers like zumspeed did. Hey, whats the difference between RRE spacers and Autozone spacers? Material?
Thanks a lot. You're wisdom is appreciated here. ;D

If I remember from your pictures, just move your one rear bung that is up high and move it down where you have the other bung. Or just plug the top bung and have another bung installed where you lower one is located. Install your spacers and it should work correctly, or at the very least, each bank should throw the same codes. When you are throwing the same codes for both banks, this is actually a good think. More then likely you'll just need to drill the holes on the spacer just a little larger and then your done.

The spacers we use from autozone are sparkplug-non-foulers, but that a different story on how to set those up for spacers, and they due work, that what I have for my spacers on my RIPP LT Headers.

How to spacers with plug-non-foulers:
$5 o2 cheater/non fouler how-to - evolutionm.net

[stangcobra]

There are also somethings I heard a guy at my local shop talking about, apparently theyre banned but theyre like o2 sensor fakes, they basically trick the ecu into thinking that everything is normal, but theyre a little hard to find, I dont know the exact name of them but I can look around if youd like

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by stangcobra

There are also somethings I heard a guy at my local shop talking about, apparently theyre banned but theyre like o2 sensor fakes, they basically trick the ecu into thinking that everything is normal, but theyre a little hard to find, I dont know the exact name of them but I can look around if youd like

Yeah man that would be great. I dont give a damn about emissions. Its not like im running diesel through a big block.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

If I remember from your pictures, just move your one rear bung that is up high and move it down where you have the other bung. Or just plug the top bung and have another bung installed where you lower one is located. Install your spacers and it should work correctly, or at the very least, each bank should throw the same codes. When you are throwing the same codes for both banks, this is actually a good think. More then likely you'll just need to drill the holes on the spacer just a little larger and then your done.

The spacers we use from autozone are sparkplug-non-foulers, but that a different story on how to set those up for spacers, and they due work, that what I have for my spacers on my RIPP LT Headers.

How to spacers with plug-non-foulers:
$5 o2 cheater/non fouler how-to - evolutionm.net

Very useful. Thank you.
Okay, So I have 3 up top (pre bung) and 1 down low (mine). Zum speed has them straight across with rre spacings, and he doesnt throw a code supposedly. So what your saying is take the grey wired O2 sensor pre bung, plug it, and move it down, then space/fouler it? And same for the other that is mine?

[HomesickAlien]

Originally Posted by stangcobra

I dont know the exact name of them but I can look around if youd like

I, would like.

[rgv4]

I have obx on my gt, but from wat ive read, obx sucks on the gs

[HomesickAlien]

Originally Posted by rgv4

I have obx on my gt, but from wat ive read, obx sucks on the gs

Like a pregnant whore they do.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by rgv4

I have obx on my gt, but from wat ive read, obx sucks on the gs

Im gonna say that the chances of it working are 50/50. I still have to try a fouler trick (again) and see if that works. If it doesnt, im sending it back, getting a brand spankin new pair, and rebunging it like zums... Str8 across with RRE spacings.

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

Im gonna say that the chances of it working are 50/50. I still have to try a fouler trick (again) and see if that works. If it doesnt, im sending it back, getting a brand spankin new pair, and rebunging it like zums... Str8 across with RRE spacings.

As far as I know, I think these OBX headers will only fit our engines/cars. So if you do send them back, tell them how these headers needs to be setup properly for you GS guys, to include that it needs 4 bungs not 3 because we have 4 O2 sensors. Tell them people are now hesitant to buy OBX anymore beause you have to re-tool them to get them to work.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

As far as I know, I think these OBX headers will only fit our engines/cars. So if you do send them back, tell them how these headers needs to be setup properly for you GS guys, to include that it needs 4 bungs not 3 because we have 4 O2 sensors. Tell them people are now hesitant to buy OBX anymore beause you have to re-tool them to get them to work.

Alright bud, Its all set up, regular fouler, boared fouler, and O2 sensor on both. Runs smooth like a babies ass. That is, until I go 65 cruise control. It may just be that the two sensors are picking up different temperatures and acting like jack asses. My pops wants to dismiss my theory of that...
So he is talking to this one guy about flashing my computer. I know, I read all that about warranty, dangers, etc, and im not keen on it.... I want to rebung it down to where the other one is. Because I only believe, that you're right in saying that the two bottom O2's are getting different temps, causing a mis read. For now, Im erasing the codes everytime im getting them. OBD is plugged in 24/7 and handy.

And sorry I havent been on to reply for ever, Vacation, Summer, Woman, you know how it is, im sure.

[Clovisman]

Well if you find a place that can re-falsh our ECU, tell us, we've all been waiting for someone to re-flash our ECUs since this car came out!! I.E. there is only one person working on a re-flash for our ECU, and it's slow and painful.

But what are the new OBDII codes that you are getting, this is the only way we can help you with the T-shooting?

But you are on the right path, all four 02 bungs needs to be in a realitive position with each other, i.e. both front (pre-CAT) bungs should be about the same distance from the valves; likewise, both after CAT bungs should be about the same distance from the two pre-CAT bungs. I'm not sure of the distance, but probably 18" to 22". This way both probs will read about the same temperature. And having it re-bunged should'n't cost much at all.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

Well if you find a place that can re-falsh our ECU, tell us, we've all been waiting for someone to re-flash our ECUs since this car came out!! I.E. there is only one person working on a re-flash for our ECU, and it's slow and painful.

But what are the new OBDII codes that you are getting, this is the only way we can help you with the T-shooting?

But you are on the right path, all four 02 bungs needs to be in a realitive position with each other, i.e. both front (pre-CAT) bungs should be about the same distance from the valves; likewise, both after CAT bungs should be about the same distance from the two pre-CAT bungs. I'm not sure of the distance, but probably 18" to 22". This way both probs will read about the same temperature. And having it re-bunged should'n't cost much at all.

So looks like im going to have to use the same damn pipe. OBX has ZERO communication. Bastards.

Alright, so, I should be that exact and measure it? Also, how could I plug the bung up that im not using, a cap of some sort?

New codes :
P0157 - O2S CKT LOW VOLTS 2 2
P0137 - O2S CKT LOW VOLTS 1 2
P0 FUCKING 300 - Infamous Misfure of random cylinders...

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

So looks like im going to have to use the same damn pipe. OBX has ZERO communication. Bastards.

Alright, so, I should be that exact and measure it? Also, how could I plug the bung up that im not using, a cap of some sort?

New codes :
P0157 - O2S CKT LOW VOLTS 2 2
P0137 - O2S CKT LOW VOLTS 1 2
P0 FUCKING 300 - Infamous Misfure of random cylinders...

Now if the voltage readings are so low coming from the two-rear sensors to the ECU, the ECU may be trying to compensating delivering the wrong amount of fuel to the cylinders, hence the misfires.

So at this point it's imperitive to get those O2 sensors working or at least have them get more heat so the ECU will be happy and just maybe get rid of the mis-fire code. But a couple other thinks that could cause a mis-fire code would be and exhaust leak, more then likely around the header plate or one of the flanges, or a Throttle Body problem, i.e. throttle position sensor, or the egt sensor.

This is why it's a good idea to reset the ECU to relearn from the factor setting. Not only do you reset the ECU, you are also reseting the throttle position sensor for its idle setting.

Did you have to extend any of your O2 harnesses??

[PearlGreenNMean]

Originally Posted by Clovisman

Now if the voltage readings are so low coming from the two-rear sensors to the ECU, the ECU may be trying to compensating delivering the wrong amount of fuel to the cylinders, hence the misfires.

So at this point it's imperitive to get those O2 sensors working or at least have them get more heat so the ECU will be happy and just maybe get rid of the mis-fire code. But a couple other thinks that could cause a mis-fire code would be and exhaust leak, more then likely around the header plate or one of the flanges, or a Throttle Body problem, i.e. throttle position sensor, or the egt sensor.

This is why it's a good idea to reset the ECU to relearn from the factor setting. Not only do you reset the ECU, you are also reseting the throttle position sensor for its idle setting.

Did you have to extend any of your O2 harnesses??

Well im pretty sure its not a Exhaust leak... We didn't dick around with anything on the TB... And No we didn't extend the O2's. They are all fully functional.
How do you Fully reset? I just use my OBD II tool to read, erase.... Disconnect battery?
And WHAT THE F*&%.... Now the only code I get is P0300, the rest are "Pending" what ever the hell that means. This damn picky car with retard O2's.
Btw, Would all this misfire cause cylinder damage/prewear?

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

Well im pretty sure its not a Exhaust leak... We didn't dick around with anything on the TB... And No we didn't extend the O2's. They are all fully functional.
How do you Fully reset? I just use my OBD II tool to read, erase.... Disconnect battery?
And WHAT THE F*&%.... Now the only code I get is P0300, the rest are "Pending" what ever the hell that means. This damn picky car with retard O2's.
Btw, Would all this misfire cause cylinder damage/prewear?

Long term you might cause damage i.e. 6 months or more. But depending how long you have been driving it this way and whether you are running rich or lean. But I think you've had this prooblem for about a month.

Pending mean the condition exisits, it many be waiting for one or two more of the same conditions to happen again then it will set the code. If the condition does not happen within a couple of drive cycles then the pending condition will clear itself.

Have you moved the after cat bung where it is about even with the lower on yet?

And you might want to go with the defouler type setup, but the two after cat sensors need more heat to get rid of the code.

Also if you been driving with the mis=fire for a long period of time, you might have fouled the plugs, so they might need cleaning before all codes will clear.

Resetting/Relearning ECU

If at any time while working on your car, and you intend to be disconnecting any electrical connections, or working around the electrical system/wiring were you might damage, cut through, drill through the wiring; you should disconnect your battery. ALSO, if you are unsure where SRS System wiring is located (Passenger Air Bags), then disconnecting the battery is a MUST, if you mess with any of these harnesses you will set a SRS Light and only the dealer can clear/reset this system. To reset the SRS System it WILL cost you about $100. There are also several computers located in different areas of our car; like your home computer and circuitry, you can harm/damage your car’s computer/s with a stray voltage strike. Be safe, disconnect $$.

Resetting/Relearning process for the ECU/PCM & Throttle Position Sensor after maintenance. Before starting any maintenance:

Turn all accessories off; Headlights, AC/Heater, Radio, etc. Make sure windows are rolled up and doors are closed before disconnecting the battery.

Disconnect the Negative battery terminal, then the Positive battery terminal. You can dissipate any stray voltage by applying the brakes, or by touching the Negative and Positive leads together after they have been removed/disconnected from the battery. If the battery is disconnected for a long period of time this should not be necessary.

Do your required maintenance, and after the maintenance is completed, do the following to reset/relearn the ECU/PCM and reset the Throttle Position Sensor to its neutral position.

Reconnect your battery terminals. First install the Positive lead, then your Negative lead.

Turn your ignition key to the “ON” position but do not start your car. You will hear some clicking under the hood, this is your Throttle Position Sensors relearning its neutral position. You may also have some flashing dash lights. Wait about two-minutes, then turn the ignition key to the “OFF” position for ten-seconds.

Turn your ignition key to start the engine; let the engine idle for at least ten-minutes. Your engine might idle rough at first, but it will smooth out as the ECM/PCM learns its new parameters. Turn the engine “OFF” for ten-seconds.

Restart the engine and take the car for a test drive for about 20 minutes. Normal driving, no hard accelerations or stops, do not WOT the engine (Wide Open Throttle). After your driving cycle, turn your engine “OFF”. Note: during this first drive cycle, take it easy on the engine for at least the first 30 miles.

From this point your engine should have learned its new parameters and should be ready for your everyday type of driving. If you get a SES Light or any other Lights, have someone check your OBDII for any set or pending codes, post those codes for further trouble-shooting.

[PearlGreenNMean]

Did I rebung yet? No. I havent been able to find a job this whole damn summer. :/
Defouler setup? I am using it currently.
And I will clean it and do all this stuff when I rebung and get back with you... Sorry Its taking me so long. My dad has his Lincoln project, his Daytona Eliminator project, and this 87 vette he is fixing, and we just got a shit ton of cars to fix, which I guess is good, but time consuming. And he is really reluctant to let me work on my own car, he keeps saying he just wants to put the stock headers back on, which would be more work than trying to fix these ones. So between my dad and money, its looking pretty rough. But clovis, thanks for sticking with me through all this and giving beyond expert details through the way. I will let you know asap when im able to rebung... and to clarify, should I move them straight across, or bring the after cats both down low?
Thanks.

[Clovisman]

Originally Posted by PearlGreenNMean

Did I rebung yet? No. I havent been able to find a job this whole damn summer. :/
Defouler setup? I am using it currently.
And I will clean it and do all this stuff when I rebung and get back with you... Sorry Its taking me so long. My dad has his Lincoln project, his Daytona Eliminator project, and this 87 vette he is fixing, and we just got a shit ton of cars to fix, which I guess is good, but time consuming. And he is really reluctant to let me work on my own car, he keeps saying he just wants to put the stock headers back on, which would be more work than trying to fix these ones. So between my dad and money, its looking pretty rough. But clovis, thanks for sticking with me through all this and giving beyond expert details through the way. I will let you know asap when im able to rebung... and to clarify, should I move them straight across, or bring the after cats both down low?
Thanks.

Yeah, leave the top two where they are at, i.e. the pre-cat O2 Sensors, and plug the top bung that holds the after cat sensor. Move that After-Cat Sensor further down stream in about the same postion/area that the Lower one is located at now which is also an After-Cat Sensor. But basicly speaking there needs to be some distance between the pre-cat sensors, and the after cat-sensors, the space between the pre's and after's should be about the same, this way it will be easier to control the temp differences between the pre's and after cat sensors.

When it's time, and if you need more help, drop me a PM if you need more clearification or help!!