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4G Eclipse GS/SE Specific 2.4L I4 (4G69) Specific Forum


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Old March 4th, 2016, 09:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Stayer. Lightweight crankshaft pulley.

Hi friends!
From the title of the thread is clear about what will be discussed. At the moment there is a spare 4G69 engine. With this engine I'm conducting different experiments. It will also be a great and interesting topic. Probably a couple of months. When I get results. For this project, I try to use all possibilities to increase the capacity.

In this topic I want to talk about making the lightweight crankshaft pulley. I've seen a lot of graphics power, those who set up such a pulley. This gives you about 5-7 HP. And faster acceleration of the engine.

Originally I wanted to just buy on ebey. But unfortunately, found nothing suitable for a 4g69. There are a few pieces for the EVO. But with a caveat.
Firstly, they're all reduced size. This is not good. The power steering, pump, alternator and air conditioning will not work properly.
Secondly you have to choose the size of the other belt.
Third, they mainly made in China. Now I will tell you in more detail.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 09:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I didn't have to buy a pulley. My friend bought one a year ago this pulley. He gave me a sample.

On the pictures it looked not bad. But in fact it was much worse. Nick on the working edges. Low purity of processing. The absence of the protective layer. Small size (125mm)
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Also on sale is colored (red, blue, etc.) However, the layer thickness of 5-7 microns. It serves only a decorative layer instead of a protective layer. It did not suit me. I decided to do the pulley.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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First. You have to understand something to start from. Weighed the stock pulley.


Factory engineers from model to model of reduce weight. For example. Pulley 4G64 weighs 2300 g. The pulley is made of three parts. Outer, inner and rubber damper. In the engine 4G69 inner part made of aluminum alloy.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I made a few 3D models. With different numbers of holes and different shapes.

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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Then made detailed drawings of the product.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Next you need to choose the material. I don't know why the pulleys are made of alloy 6061. For the part which works on friction it's not quite right. More properly applied to the 2024 alloy and with heat treatment. In Russia, this has an analogue alloy (Д16T). If you take grade alloys, we will see all the advantages of 2024 alloy over the 6061 alloy. Although it is somewhat more expensive.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Purchased material for fabrication of parts.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Started to make.

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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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After the item is made, is thermostrengthening in a special oven.



Electroplating is applied to a hard anodic coating (60 microns).
Now the pulley is protected from corrosion and wear-resistant.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Weighed. More than three times lighter. Good result.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Further, what would a normal product, it is necessary to produce a package.

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Old March 4th, 2016, 10:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The product is ready. You may ask, how much is it? In my case it is $130.


That's it. Listen to your comments.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 10:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Any dyno tests? rre pulley still weights 263g which is twice less than this, but if it's affects performance same way, i'd be more interested in yours. Made in mother Russia, my homeland tho.
Also, is there a chance to get custom print?

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Old March 5th, 2016, 11:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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^^^ the RRE pulley has a reduced size. It's not very good.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stayer View Post
^^^ the RRE pulley has a reduced size. It's not very good.
Can you elaborate on this and how yours differs?
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Old March 6th, 2016, 09:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Can you elaborate on this and how yours differs?
the pulley rotates units - power steering, water pump, alternator, air conditioning pump. If you reduce the size (lower transmission), all units rotate at a slower speed. Thus, your power steering develops less force. Worse the water pump is pumping coolant. The generator produces lower voltage. Pump worse conditioning is pumping freon.
Besides, it is necessary to buy the reduced belt length.

My pulley has a fully stock size. It is completely Bolt on. You just have to remove the old pulley and put new one.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 10:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The RRE pulley and stock.

I think it's not right.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 10:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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What about the loss of the dampener? Isn't it still going to affect engine life?
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Old March 7th, 2016, 11:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The damper needs more for comfort. It does not affect the life of the engine. Earlier, on millions of cars never had the dampers, nevertheless they worked.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 11:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I just ordered one so I'll report back when it comes in. Definitely looking forward to it and testing a theory as to why I keep blowing through serpentine belts with my RRE UDP.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 12:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I was told that it will take 14 to 20 days. Let's hope that you will get faster. Expect a report.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 07:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ok so I got the pulley in yesterday, got it installed this morning and then went on a nice couple hundred mile drive to break things in and get initial impressions.

First off, packaging is really nice and held up well on it's trans-continent trip. I think mine may have been tested prior to shipment because there was some grease on it, but no big deal.



The metal feels very similar to the OEM pulley metal which was nice and the v belt grooves feel grippier than the RRE UDP. Dimension wise it is bang on to the stock pulley like Stayer claimed.



I also weighed all three pullies so we can have comparison data. Weight difference between Stayer's pulley and the RRE UDP is 10.4 ounces.

Stock Pulley - 3 lbs 14.5 oz


RRE UDP - 9.6 oz


Stayer Pulley - 1 lb 3.8 oz


Size comparison of the RRE DUP and Stayer Pulley


Installation was incredibly easy, just like it would be for the RRE UDP. I do quite like using the stock belt length again as I don't have to remember the Gates part number anymore.



Initial impressions - I really like it. It is very well made and the only quibble I have with it is that it is missing the timing mark from it that RRE included on theirs. This could potentially be an issue when I take my car in to have the valves adjusted as that is how they determine TDC.

Driving wise it's super smooth. I may have lost 1 or 2 HP compared to the RRE UDP and it doesn't seem to rev quite as quickly, but it is still way better than the stock pulley. Compared to the RRE it makes the engine feel a little more refined, and steering feels better as well at lower speeds which I think is a direct response to having the PS pump pulley rotating at the correct speed again. All in all, I'm very happy with it and can't wait to get more time and miles on it so I can develop a better opinion of it.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 11:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Very happy for you. I was worried a little for international shipping. But all is well.

Can offer you reflash the ECU. You are 100% will reveal the potential of the engine. For this you need an openport 2 cable. And e-mail. If you find it difficult to follow the instructions, we can do it remotely via TeamViewer.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 11:25 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I just sent you a PM as I'm currently reflashed already.
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Old May 24th, 2016, 08:43 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Good Day! I'm new to this page and my eclipse is 100% stock. I wanna start modding and your pulley looks like a good idea. How do I buy this?
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Old May 24th, 2016, 08:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The RRE pulley makes more power _because_ it is smaller. That is the main benefit. It is not the problem. Stock parts are made with the assumption that you will not be driving so much with high spirits and mostly at lower RPMs. Yes our pulley spins the various accessories slower. That is how it makes more power and also how it adds to the longer life of the various accessories. I have yet to hear anyone complain about increased power steering effort, low battery voltage, A/C problems or cooling issues. I did not invent underdrive pulleys, they have been around for decades.

My pulley is proven for over 10 years. In my country Stayer we do not tear down another company's part to make our parts look better. I suggest that you prove your product standing on its own merits.

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Old May 26th, 2016, 12:32 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Mike Welch excuse me. I have no purpose to sling mud at someone. I didn't mean specifically the pulley of your brand (RRE). If the pulley has a reduced diameter, no matter what the firm is made. If you did not write about the problems, it does not mean that they are not. Reduced pulley is not properly working units.
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Old May 26th, 2016, 01:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The RRE pulley makes more power _because_ it is smaller. That is the main benefit. It is not the problem. Stock parts are made with the assumption that you will not be driving so much with high spirits and mostly at lower RPMs. Yes our pulley spins the various accessories slower. That is how it makes more power and also how it adds to the longer life of the various accessories. I have yet to hear anyone complain about increased power steering effort, low battery voltage, A/C problems or cooling issues. I did not invent underdrive pulleys, they have been around for decades.

My pulley is proven for over 10 years. In my country Stayer we do not tear down another company's part to make our parts look better. I suggest that you prove your product standing on its own merits.

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Woahh so I don't know if you meant to do this Mike, but this came across as pretty aggressive. Stayer is providing an alternative to your pulley, and that's exactly what everyone else in America does. Can we try to not be rude to each other? We all love cars and are part of the 4g community, lets appreciate each other's products =)
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Old May 27th, 2016, 01:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Haydu: He says my pulley is all wrong. Yet we have been making people happy with more power for over 10 years with it. The exact reason it makes more power available is the same feature that he says is wrong about it. The smaller diameter.

His pulley does not increase power. So where is the value in that? Yeah it might look cute. I would be fine with him making his no power pulley and selling it to anyone that likes that is he didnt go around saying that my pulley sucks and is wrong. _That_ is aggressive and not cool at all.

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Old May 27th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stayer View Post
Mike Welch excuse me. I have no purpose to sling mud at someone. I didn't mean specifically the pulley of your brand (RRE).
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Ummm... yeah you did:

Quote:
^^^ the RRE pulley has a reduced size. It's not very good.
Sell your pulley standing on its own merits. Here in the west the RRE Pulleys work just fine. You have only speculation to offer. You offer no proof to any of your claims.

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Old May 27th, 2016, 02:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Math wise:

The lower weight of the Stayer pulley should allow the engine to rev up quicker, but not actually make more power due to the equilibrium of the inertia reached at the rev limit

The RRE one, being a smaller size, is turning the accessories at a slower speed which requires less energy as you now are no longer using energy to bring the mass of all the pulleys to the same speed as stock (reduced inertia) as well as by being lighter it in itself reduces the inertia of the main drive pulley. You also lower the friction load on each of the pulleys by turning them slower (fewer passes over a friction surface over time)

The Stayer one will not increase power, but will reduce load. Less load, more power to wheels
The RRE one should increase usable power due to less resistance. Less load by weight and rotation, more power at crank as well as wheels

I like how they both work by reducing the load on the engine instead of making the engine more powerful. Very safe upgrade whichever path you choose (no issues with my RRE pulley)
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Old May 27th, 2016, 04:33 PM   #34 (permalink)
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There is nothing wrong per se with having an underdrive pulley as long as you take the time to change the pulleys of the other accessories for ones with a larger diameter. The RRE is one of the first that I've seen that does not and only comes with the crank pulley. By only replacing the crankshaft pulley you are are reducing the speed at which the alternator, water pump and AC are turning which increases the load on them. To counteract this, and which what most underdrive kits do, is to provide larger diameter pulleys for those accessories to speed them back up. Doing this allows you to reduce the weight on the crankshaft and parasitic drag while maintaining the same rotational relationship that the OEM pulley had with the other pulleys.
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Old May 27th, 2016, 05:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eosrebel View Post
There is nothing wrong per se with having an underdrive pulley as long as you take the time to change the pulleys of the other accessories for ones with a larger diameter.
Takes away the whole point of the underdrive. But I have seen it on cars both ways. The ones with multiple pulleys usually keep stock size and just reduce weight (eg, for an 09 civic)


I still pull 14v off my altenator at 600rpm idle with the RRE, so I'd say it's fine.
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Old May 28th, 2016, 05:58 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Yesterday I was in Moscow on a chassis dynamometer. I felt a camshaft kit. And at the same time experienced your lightweight pulley. I will show charts later, I just arrived. My pulley gives 2 HP

Mike W do not get angry. Let's consider variants of cooperation? For example. You make parts for many brands of cars. I can provide a unique firmware for any car. Mitsubishi all, Nissan all, all Toyota, all Honda. And many, many others.
Some mods require intervention into the ECU.
If you are interested, write in PM. Discuss.
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Old May 28th, 2016, 05:59 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I want to say. Camshaft kit + lightweight pulley gave 180 HP

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Old May 29th, 2016, 03:20 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm interested in the camshaft kit. What do you have? Also was the 180hp at the wheels or crank?

I'm all in for increasing power to wheels by reducing parasitic load
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Old May 29th, 2016, 10:16 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I'm interested in the camshaft kit. What do you have? Also was the 180hp at the wheels or crank?

I'm all in for increasing power to wheels by reducing parasitic load
180 hp crankshaft. I think tomorrow I can do the theme of the camshaft.
I need time to write in English.
Now it can be read in Russian https://www.drive2.ru/l/10065012/
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Old May 29th, 2016, 11:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Any word on price? And will any other parts need to be changed? I used google translate and understood most of what was said.
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