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BilletProof Racing (BrianJ) Custom tuning and electronics solutions for the 4G Eclipse. If you can think it, we can build it! Home of the PnP harness for the F/IC, Paddle Shifter Control Module, Foglight Control Module, and Tach Adapter Module.


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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Available NOW...TUNING by BrianJ

Hey guys,

I wanted to check interest/ideas on me offering what I call "online tuning" for those who have the FIC and a wideband installed. Basically, instead of you paying the dyno tons of money everytime you change something, you'll pay me to setup the FIC maps correctly, and to write maps for your particular application. Here's how it would work...

You'll install the FIC and harness and load the basic map that I'll provide. Then, you'll datalog a couple runs and send me the log file. I'll then analyze the data and re-write the maps for you...you'll load the new map and datalog again. You'll repeat this process untill we hit your target AFR.

I'll probably do something like a flat fee for, say, 3 months worth of personal tuning updates or something like that. So, for 3 months, you can change whatever you want with your setup and it won't cost anything more to re-tune.

I really think this could be a good thing, especially for newer users who don't really understand tuning concepts. This will allow them to see the basics and learn to tune on their own by asking questions and following the process...kinda like going to class for tuning.

Some people don't have dyno's near them or they charge $600 an hour...this would also be beneficial for those people.

So, what do you think? Questions? Comments?

Brian
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds good!

I think people should jump on this.

A question though.. Say I am tuning mine myself and just have a question. Would you charge me to ask it? lol
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not a bad Idea, I just hope something never goes horribly wrong from something done by the tuner lol Nah everything with this should work out just fine it is just sometimes even sending info back and forth between two people can turn into a game of telephone(you know the one when you were a kid and info changed slightly from person to person lol), in which case could possibly cause a big problem or headache for you Brian. Even someone sending you back the wrong afr log after you send them a new map could cause issues for your re tuning, but alas I say go for it if you think the endless bitching and emails is what you would like to sign up for.

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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think Brian is counting on the fact that most people aren't complete dumb asses...


But then again some people shouldn't even be driving a car... much less tuning one.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What kind of price range are we talking about Brian?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Not a bad Idea, I just hope something never goes horribly wrong from something done by the tuner lol Nah everything with this should work out just fine it is just sometimes even sending info back and forth between two people can turn into a game of telephone(you know the one when you were a kid and info changed slightly from person to person lol), in which case could possibly cause a big problem or headache for you Brian. Even someone sending you back the wrong afr log after you send them a new map could cause issues for your re tuning, but alas I say go for it if you think the endless bitching and emails is what you would like to sign up for.

peace
LOL...do you have ANY idea how many questions/emails I answer now about simple things? It really wouldn't be any different except now I would actually be modifying maps and helping to get the car in check. The bottom line is that a map is just a map. You can ALWAYS go back to the last one that was working. This is just a tuning service, similar to many other programs people have for other platforms...except this one comes with alot of knowledge and the opportunity for the user to actually learn something.


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What kind of price range are we talking about Brian?
I don't know yet, what's the average for one dyno tuning session? $300?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i dont know shit about tuning, but if at the end of the 3 months (or whatever) i learn enough to be able to tune my car myself; i would be all over it!!! Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. this isnt something i will diving into right away but will definitely want to do soon.

however i see hacmans point, this is something that can be extremely risky and to someone who knows nothing and possibly dangerous. personally im teaching myself and learning more everyday so i think im up for it.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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the shops i spoke with in dallas charge 100-150 per hour for tuning, dyno run is separate.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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i dont know shit about tuning, but if at the end of the 3 months (or whatever) i learn enough to be able to tune my car myself; i would be all over it!!! Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. this isnt something i will diving into right away but will definitely want to do soon.

however i see hacmans point, this is something that can be extremely risky and to someone who knows nothing and possibly dangerous. personally im teaching myself and learning more everyday so i think im up for it.
It's really not as bad as you think. You just follow the instructions and leave the numbers to me (at least in the very beginning) and it'll be fine. You'll never get anything from me that could damage the vehicle. There's really not going to be anything that drastic going on, just some AFR tweaking to get your mixture right for your particular application. The biggest value I think in this is for the user to be able to see the changes, and see their effect and to learn to be able to do the tuning on their own.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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the shops i spoke with in dallas charge 100-150 per hour for tuning, dyno run is separate.
Sounds about right...figure at least a couple hours is what they'll end up hitting you for...plus the dyno...

I'll have to think a little about price...maybe have a couple different levels or something...
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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let me know when you get it all figured out
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It would have to be cheaper then 300, cause no one is putting the car on a dyno, and they can't see the numbers.

You got to think.. Your not just paying all that money for the knowledge that the tuner is puttiing out, but also the power for the dyno, the actual cost of the dyno, time and labor.

So you could charge for time and knowledge, cause that is pretty much what your giving people.

I say 100 dollars a month sounds about right. I mean if someone can't get their car tuned in a month then something is wrong. Or you could just have a set price per car, or person.

If it was me, I would still have to pay to go to the dyno, cause I would want to see the difference in the numbers from before.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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well of course dyno would still be needed, but dynos are cheap. i recall the shop quoting me 50-75 for 3-5 runs and if they install anything aftermarket you get a free run before and after (which i thought is cool). id rather pay a fee to brian and learn how to do it myself, then pay for a dyno to see the results.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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ya i would be up for this. i can be your first customer for this haha
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Dynos are cheap? Man you crazy! 80 dollars for 3 pulls isn't cheap in my book.

And if the shop charges 200+ dollars an hour for labor I doubt that you getting them to put parts on will be a good deal. If it take them 5 hours to put headers on, which it most likely will, then dyno before and after, which will take another 2 hours for each run, then your looking at around 1k to 1200 bucks for a header install.... no thanks!!
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Old July 7th, 2009, 10:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Everyone's increase in power will be different...it all depends on how bad each car is running to begin with. Some will be worse than others. The dyno is just a tuning tool to "see" gains...it isn't 100% necessary. We know from experience that 13:1 is a good number for power gains, but I don't need a dyno to tell me where we are, all I need is a wideband. The only thing that the dyno does that I can't is provide actual numbers...if numbers are that important then you'll have to go to a dyno...but no matter what the numbers are, you'll know the car is running the best it can because the AFR will be right.

I'm looking at this more from a training standpoint. You can pay $300 each time you go to have the car tuned and you can walk away with what is usually a shitty map done by a "tech" that doesn't know nearly as much as he led you to believe...or you can let me show you exactly what's going on and how to tune the car yourself so you can do it on your own and not have to rely on someone else to always do it for you.

I can't remember how many times someone has told me they'd like to tune their car, but they had no knowledge about it. Or they didn't have a dyno within a two hour drive of them, or that the only dyno around quoted them $600 to do a tune. There are several reasons that this would be beneficial to alot of people, but the number one reason is that you will have a good understanding of what's actually going on in your car and how to tune it. That's where the real value is.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 10:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Oh I agree that it will help a lot with people tuning their own car.

I just want to know your price.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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After some figuring, I'm looking at $300...even at $30 an hour that's only 10 hrs. worth of work and I'm quite sure I'll have way more than that...especially for the beginners with zero knowledge on tuning. It's the cost of one tuning session at a shop...

I can do a simple map in a few datalogging sessions, this is what they do on the dyno...however, this is WAY different from teaching the customer how to do it themselves. The time it takes to answer questions and explain the tuning process and principles to a beginner will be extensive. There needs to be a timeframe on the process, say 2-3 months. However, I've always been willing to help people out and I'll stick with you till you understand the process. If you get it in 2 weeks, then my obligation is fulfilled, if it takes a couple months then that's what it takes. Even after the timeframe, if you have a question I'm not going to ignore you because your "time is up".

I think it's a great deal for someone who want to learn how their car works, and to be able to tune themselves. At the very least you'll come away from this with a much greater understanding for what really goes on under the hood and how to make it do what you want it to do...and your car will run MUCH better in the process.

Brian
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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...I got first dibs.

Tell me when, where and how...

I'm shell shocked with dyno's around here man...

My wideband should be in this weekend.

Lemme know.

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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I love this idea, maybe you could even throw in some sort of package deal where you buy the fic, harness, and "online tuning" all at once from you. I'd be down for that
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Old July 7th, 2009, 01:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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this is a great idea...if anyone should get our money it should be you for all you've done for the community.

another plus I see, once you've done a few you'll have good baseline maps to work with for various mod setups...i.e. a map for a gt with i/e/h, and could simply offer those as a starting point for those who want a safe place to start.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 01:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You know Im game for this. lol
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Old July 7th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I love this idea, maybe you could even throw in some sort of package deal where you buy the fic, harness, and "online tuning" all at once from you. I'd be down for that
thatd be awesome, since i still have to get the FIC and harness.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
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BrianJ, you have pushed me into buying the FIC and what not now. I was just going to wait until next summer but noooo. I will now begin saving my money. Let us know price wise. I dont want to throw a number out or anything. All I know is I do trust your knowledge enough to run your tunes.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You're looking at the $300 mentioned above for the tuning. As for the package deal...MikeW at RRE has the harness and FIC package for a better deal than I can offer as I'm not a dealer for AEM directly...besides, he's been really good to me as a distributor for my harnesses, so if you need the FIC/harness you can get it from him for a great deal...I know he has them in stock so hit him up.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Im down Brian haven't installed the FIC yet but will be soon
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hmmm If you do go through with this, I'm in...Had a few problems with shops around here so I have to start from scratch. I'll buy another set-up (sold the other) just so I can learn how to do this
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Also, we don't have a dyno anywheres near us so this will benefit me quite a bit.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I've already decided to do it...so whoever wants it let me know and we'll get started...!
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Nice, ill buy the set-up again in about a week so we can get started. Just dropped another 1k in parts so I have to install these and then I can start this project
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Old July 7th, 2009, 10:01 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Would you be able to set up a map for nitrous also?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Would you be able to set up a map for nitrous also?
For a wet kit yes...the map would essentially be the same as the N/A map for the same car...the only difference would be retarding timing for the spray.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 12:31 AM   #33 (permalink)
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sounds great, im putting of buying new parts for the car for awhile (lost my job). but this will be in the future like i said, ill contact you then.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 01:28 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Just so this thread doesn't get off track, here's a new thread to ask payment and purchase questions...

http://club4g.org/board/vendor-forum...tml#post245591

You can continue to ask tuning questions here, but all payment questions should be directed to the new thread...Thanks!

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Old July 8th, 2009, 02:32 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Will you be doing 1 person at a time during the 3 months, so that that person would get you all to themselves for the 3 month period. Or will you be doing like a shit load at the same time?
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Old July 8th, 2009, 06:01 AM   #36 (permalink)
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He will prob do more then one, but he most likely will have a limit. I'm sure he doesn't want to overload himself, but I'm sure he is good enough to do more then one person at a time.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 07:06 AM   #37 (permalink)
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We'll see how it goes...so far no one has actually started so it's not an issue...
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Old July 8th, 2009, 11:35 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I'll prob hit you up in september-october when I get my Headers + FIC put in by RRE.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 12:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I'll be here...
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Old July 8th, 2009, 06:14 PM   #40 (permalink)
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WOOOOT looks like be the first test subject...


ermmm is that good?

yes, indeed...
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