AEM FIC Advanced Technical Discussion

[Ricoswave]

I would like to start a thread for guys like me, who know just enough about tuning to be dangerous. A thread where we can discuss specific ins and outs of tuning with the FIC, to answer a whole lot of questions.

I plan on eventually peicing together some kind of sick turbo build, but I need to acquire the knowledge base and skills to tune the car myself, because there are few shops in the area I can trust.

I understand what A/F ratio the car needs to run at during a variety of situations, but I am a bit confused with the fuel trims. My understanding is that when I do the initial startup of my turbo build, with larger injectors, etc, I will need to use a scan tool along side the FIC to monitor the fuel trims. Am I correct that this is the first step of the tune, to get the fuel trims as close to zero as possible for a smooth idle?

I guess the ECU will see that extra fuel is being dumped from the larger injectors, and it will begin pulling fuel, indicating negative short term fuel trim values?

[360jeepboy]

I like your idea Bill and I'm going to ask for this thread to be made a sticky.

I will be needing lots of info very soon as I'm about to start tuning.

[darb454]

im picking up MIA4gEclipse's FIC and harness but as far as i know he cant find the software CD anyone know where i can find it only or send me a burned copy?

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by darb454

im picking up MIA4gEclipse's FIC and harness but as far as i know he cant find the software CD anyone know where i can find it only or send me a burned copy?

EDIT *** Follow instructions in my post below...

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by Ricoswave

I would like to start a thread for guys like me, who know just enough about tuning to be dangerous. A thread where we can discuss specific ins and outs of tuning with the FIC, to answer a whole lot of questions.

I plan on eventually peicing together some kind of sick turbo build, but I need to acquire the knowledge base and skills to tune the car myself, because there are few shops in the area I can trust.

I understand what A/F ratio the car needs to run at during a variety of situations, but I am a bit confused with the fuel trims. My understanding is that when I do the initial startup of my turbo build, with larger injectors, etc, I will need to use a scan tool along side the FIC to monitor the fuel trims. Am I correct that this is the first step of the tune, to get the fuel trims as close to zero as possible for a smooth idle?

I guess the ECU will see that extra fuel is being dumped from the larger injectors, and it will begin pulling fuel, indicating negative short term fuel trim values?

Here's some info on injector sizing...

Tuning for larger injectors

And I think that the new software has an injector sizing wizard, it's located here...

New FIC V3.01 Software

To use the latest software above (version 3.01) you first need to have a previous version installed, so download and install version 2.01 first from here.....

F/IC SOFTWARE v2.01, NEW FEATURES ADDED, UEGO GAUGE DISPLAY

Then go to the 3.01 link and follow instructions.

[Live4Redline]

I'm also about to start tuning with the FIC...

[darb454]

do you need a map file loaded for it to run once u got it installed, need a map file for a 06 GT with CAI and cat back

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by darb454

do you need a map file loaded for it to run once u got it installed, need a map file for a 06 GT with CAI and cat back

you have the FIC all installed and it won't start? It SHOULD have a zero map in it from the factory, but sometimes it doesn't, or the setup page is incorrectly configured...what software version are you running?

[Ricoswave]

Alright so lets say I get my turbo setup completely installed, complete with larger injectors, garrett gt35, external wastegate, BOV, all the hardpipes and whatnot, and a big ass intercooler.

I switch to colder plugs and start the car for the initial startup, and level my fuel trims to near perfect. At this point is the car safe to drive and datalog? Or will the car throw codes and run like shit as soon as it sees boost?
I guess we would need to clamp the MAP sensor so the boost is hidden from the ECU, and let the Fuel Ignition Controller take care of the boost?

How will the FIC read boost, and then know to add fuel, pull timing, or both?
I know the FIC has the reference port for boost. What I do not know is what needs to be done to make the fuel map a direct function of the amount of boost present, and engine load/speed. I just don't want to blow anything up on initial startup.

I plan on doing it right and picking up a scan tool and a wideband along with the FIC, so I can see everything I need to.

[darb454]

no brian i dont have the the FIC installed yet, i wasnt sure if it came with a base map for the eclipse already on it or not and was curious if i could just install it till i found a base map to tune with. i download the 3.0 version from your last post i appreciate it

[raydawg]

its just like a basic X-Y coordinate graph/map. X is the RPM and Y is either MAP or MAF (use what you want). there is like 20-something pts of accuracy on both axis. so when your car is driving your AEM will receive an input of MAP or MAF, match that up to your RPM axis and there is a cell to input a fuel value. its really easy....just one of those things that you just gotta fire it up and look for yourself. It becomes really obvious once you see it.
its honestly one of those things that if you can figure it out when you see it, then you probably shouldn't be doing it yourself or building any kind of complex setup....its really that easy lol

[eclipsercr2006]

whats the big difference between the aem fic that we use and this on for almost 2.5grand AEM Universal Engine Management System [Part#: 30-1900U]

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by eclipsercr2006

whats the big difference between the aem fic that we use and this on for almost 2.5grand AEM Universal Engine Management System [Part#: 30-1900U]

That is a full stand alone engine management system...that unit basically eliminates the need for the factory ECU, it controls all engine functions directly and doesn't need to interface with the factory ECU at all.

It's expensive and alot more complicated for the average user...and yes, you can REALLY f*ck up your car with that if you don't know what you're doing.

For a full race application it would be nice, but for a street car it's not necessary.

Another difference is this quote about the EMS....."Special Order Item - For sale only to AEM Authorized end user or installer. AEM offers no tech support, refunds, or exchanges on this item due to it's being designed for full race applications."

[Ricoswave]

If I were to put together a turbo build, and run a boost line into the FIC, will it read the boost and dump fuel accordingly? Or will I have to go into the fuel map and add fuel manually?

[raydawg]

there is no auto tuning in the FIC....and its not a boost only line. its just a MAP sensor and used for many N/A tuning applications

[Ricoswave]

So there is no mathematical relationship between boost and fuel that the FIC can monitor and give you? I didn't think it woudl tune itself, just wondered if there was a boost wizard or something that will give you a baseline to start from in terms of boost.

[darb454]

im pretty sure thats what its there for to measure vacuum/boost and can tell what your hitting on your data logger

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by Ricoswave

So there is no mathematical relationship between boost and fuel that the FIC can monitor and give you? I didn't think it woudl tune itself, just wondered if there was a boost wizard or something that will give you a baseline to start from in terms of boost.

There are a bunch of different wizards to help you in the newest version of the software...HOWEVER, there is no way for the FIC to know how much fuel to dump unless you tell it. Keep in mind that every motor will need a different amount of fuel per lb. of boost...if one car needs 15% more fuel at a given boost, then another might need 22%...injector size and fuel pressure also play a part...the wizards help you out some though, but you're going to have to add fuel to the maps manually to get everything right. Hell, even RIPP's Black Box was WAY off and it was supposed to be tuned correctly for the SDS kit...every car is different.

[darb454]

ok i got my wideband hooked up and about to start tuning. now to get my bearings straight we want around 12.0-13.0 so a safe street tune? so if 12 is leaned out then up around 15 is rich and want to subtract fuel right... now the program page u want to use should be the load / RPM one and -1.0 would subract 1 AFR to make it 14? or how much would you have to subtract to go down 1 AFR point?

anyone correct me on any of this or tips

[raydawg]

you have it backwards....12 is rich and 15 is lean.
and you should be operating in percentage mode, so there is not direct number to really drop 1 A/F, every car is different. -15 will make your car give 15% less fuel at that RPM/Load...could be 2A/F points, could be 1. just have to drive your car and find out.

[darb454]

what are you looking for idealy 14?

[raydawg]

lol no way man, unless your fascinated by blow motors lol. high 12's, low 13's is what you want for a safe tune. mid 13's for very agressive, but wouldn't recommend it for daily driving

[Mitsiman]

I am just starting myself to get familiar with this the AEM system. We intend to use them for our supercharged Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero vehicles we are working on, the late model vehicles are utilising the same MAF sensor as your 4G models with four O2 sensors so they are now quite a complex vehicle.

Does anyone have any completed maps from the AEM unit on a boosted 4G? Or even a naturally aspirated model? I am just wanting to specifically see how you went on adjustments, the setup and mostly how you went with the O2 voltage trims.

Being an experienced tuner, anything I work through on our vehicles here I will pass along. Had a good look through the software tonight and am quite impressed with the unit. The only thing I think its lacking is some intake air tempature compensation maps on fuel and ignition. I would have thought these would have been very important to have added.

Maybe something they can provide in the future

[BrianJ]

I think AEM was leaving the IAT correction to the stock ECU...since the FIC isn't meant to be a full standalone...

You could use IAT as a fuel modifier though if ou want to. Just hook the IAT up to the MAF channel...then if you need to map/clamp MAF voltages use AUX a or b for that.

[Mitsiman]

The problem is that for example most MAF systems utilise the air temp sensor inside the MAF unit itself. The problem being if you place forced induction on the vehicle, it is no longer reading accuratly the air being placed inside the engine. A supercharger system is worse because it usually runs much higher air intake tempatures that vary a lot.

I have some ideas how to work around it, for the older 3G type systems, I found the air temp sensor from a 1.5 mirage had the same resistance values, so I would fit that into the vehicle, and isolate the wiring from the factory MAF sensor, and that way allowed the factory ECU to recompensate by placing that air temp between the intercooler and the throttle body. This worked well for allowing the factory ECU to retain its factory compensation maps.

I will have to research the values from the newer platforms and see if I can replicate that same type of system. Your idea of using the MAF table wouldn't really work well because you still have the same issue of not actually knowing what the air intake value are unless you fitted a secondary sensor into the vehicle, and maybe used an analogue input to data log it.

Would make much more sense for AEM to add this as a progamming variable to the system. Reconfigure mayne one of the auxiliary inputs to have additional fuel/ignition control.

[darb454]

does thins mean your working on a supercharger for the 4g other then ripp? nice to have more options...

[Mitsiman]

No this supercharger kit is for the rear wheel drive light commercial Mitsubishi vehicles.

[Ricoswave]

This is exactly what I wanted to know, because I'm on the fence between a custom turbo or a supercharger setup.

I know the MAF sensor is going to be a major hangup. It just doesn't know how to deal with boost, and I wonder how this will be overcome. Can we clamp the MAF sensor somehow and hide the boost?

What would be less finicky, a pull through or blow through setup?
I would like to know specific technical issues that were exposed when RRE had all the problems tuning the first turbo GT. Anybody have any inside info?

[BrianJ]

Originally Posted by Ricoswave

This is exactly what I wanted to know, because I'm on the fence between a custom turbo or a supercharger setup.

I know the MAF sensor is going to be a major hangup. It just doesn't know how to deal with boost, and I wonder how this will be overcome. Can we clamp the MAF sensor somehow and hide the boost?

What would be less finicky, a pull through or blow through setup?
I would like to know specific technical issues that were exposed when RRE had all the problems tuning the first turbo GT. Anybody have any inside info?

Why do you think the MAF is a problem? There are many boosted 4G's now, both SC and Turbo, and I'm not aware of any MAF issues with these setups...

The FIC can re-map the entire MAF sensor range, or just act as a simple clamp if you like. I know there were some people who didn't touch the MAF and had no issues with boost...bottom line is the MAF isn't an issue, the FIC can do whatever you need/want to do with it, no problem.

The problem that Mitsuman is referring to is with the interfacing of the MAF sensor itself. I reported this issue WAYYYY back when I was testing the first FIC...I spent alot of time with it and I built the solution into my FIC harnesses. It's just a little circuitry that is needed for the FIC to interface the MAF sensor correctly.

It's already been done, there are no more issues with the MAF!!!

[raydawg]

just run your MAF map in voltage mode and tell the FIC what voltages to send to the ECU during whatever boost conditions, which will basically hide the boost assuming your set your maps up correctly.

[Ricoswave]

Alright, so I feel much better now. I was just confused as to how you can let it blow through the MAF sensor without it throwing a hissy fit. So with the right tuner, properly sized injectors, and all the right hardware what are the major problems we will see in a custom turbo setup? I just wonder why I haven't seen more turboed GT's.

I have all the resources to do it, a reputable shop with incredible welders, the only thing I lack is the cash right now.

[darb454]

im considering it shortly after i get headers, im still trting to figure out a good spot to put the turbo but only spot seems is where the y pipe joints up and it will be tight

[Mitsiman]

I would never use a MAF as a blow through setup on any application. ALWAYS use it as a suck through to replicate the factory setup. Blowing through is what creates the majority of issues with tuning because it throws the settings way out of sync with factory.

[Live4Redline]

No turbos...? and why?... becouse hot side pipes are expensive and a bitch to have custom fabricated from scratch. Plus its hard to run a evenly displaced HUGE single turbo setup and even harder to run a twin turbo setup due to piping.

If someone manufactured the hot side piping and only the hot side piping it would be well worth it.

[omar123]

hey live 4 theres this guy in cardomain.com has a turbo gt check it out.

[Ricoswave]

I think these guys could do the hot side piping for me, seems like they are up to the task:
Welcome To RDFabs Stainless Specialists Home Site

I know them well, they did my exhaust. Incredible fabricators, top notch installs. Their shit has placed at Nopi. I know a few of the guys personally, great shop and fun to be around. They are all about doing my car, its just a matter of money. Too bad I couldn't find a few sponsors........

[darb454]

or find people that are interested and split the cost of R&D and make a few of the piping as a kit