FWD vs RWD vs AWD drag race discussion - Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority
Support Our Troops!         
 

Go Back   Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority > General > Motorsports (Racing)

Motorsports (Racing) Discuss your most recent competitive automotive efforts here.


Welcome to the Club4G Forums where you can join fellow owners from all over North America discussing anything related to the 2006+ Mitsubishi Eclipse. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. To gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, you must register today!

  • Participate in over 100 specialized forums!
  • Get event information regarding meets, mod days and help in our regionalized forums.
  • Gain access to our classified marketplace to buy, sell or trade parts.
  • Levarage a vast collection of Do-It-Yourself guides on steps on working on your Eclipse
  • Access to the growing online parts directory which gives you insight on available parts and the vendors that carry them.
  • Communicate privately with other owners.

All of this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account. Sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 28th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
BoRiCuAGT's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: PoNcE
Vehicle: 2006/Eclipse/GT
Posts: 509
Rep Power: 7
BoRiCuAGT will become famous soon enough
FWD vs RWD vs AWD drag race discussion

Okay, what I want to start here, if possible, is a deep and serious discussion of which car you think would win in a drag race considering the following criteria:

- The three cars have the same tires, and they are the stickiest non-slick tires available at the moment.

- All cars have the same power to weight ratio (Horsepower measured at the crank).

- Their engines produce the same BHP and torque (at the crank) at the same RPMs, and they cut power at the same redline.

- As a result, the cars weigh the same.

- The cars have the same Cd of Drag.

- They have the options that enhance traction the most (limited-slip differentials in the case of the FWD and RWD cars, and the most advanced AWD systems in the AWD car.)

- Their engine is at the front, and their weight distribution % is: FWD 62/38, RWD 51/49, and AWD 56/44.

- All cars have the same overall ratios in all gears.

- The cars have 6 spd M/Ts.

- They have expert drivers that know how to launch each car the best.

- You will pick a winner for the 1/8 mile, a winner for the 1/4 mile, and a winner for the 1/2 mile. The winner can be the same, or you can change a different winner depending on your judgement. You will also mention which cars finish second and third. You can provide car distances between the subjects.

- You will provide a brief but logical explanation for each selection.

My selection is as follows:

1/8 mile:
I think that this is the easiest choice, and many of you will approve, the winner should be the AWD car. The advantage in traction provided will more than make up for the HP loss at the wheels. The second place should go to the RWD because it has a better weight distribution and that helps at launch. But it shouldn't have more than 1 1/2 cars on the FWD car. The AWD could have a 2 cars lead on the RWD car.

1/4 mile:
Here, the AWD will still hold the edge, but the lead should shrink to a car or less. The HP loss at the wheels is my explanation to this reduction. Second place could be a tie or a minimal advantage for the RWD car. The RWD looses more HP at the wheels than the FWD car, and that will help the FWD car to get level with the other car.

1/2 mile:
In all honesty, I give the win to the FWD. If I haven't bought my GT, I wouldn't have the experience of beating cars with more BHP (at the crank, remember) when the speeds get over 80 MPH. Of course, the short ratios of the GT help a lot, but I still think that the FWD car would win, even if by the smallest margin. Second place should go to the RWD, again because it looses less HP at the wheels than the AWD, but it could be close.

Now it's your turn, analyze all the data provided and give it a shot.


Ps, IDK if this is in the right section, so I apologize in advance if not.
BoRiCuAGT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mech Automator's Avatar
 

Name: Kevin
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle: 08/GS
Posts: 267
Rep Power: 7
Mech Automator has a spectacular aura about
rwd... rwd... rwd.
__________________
Success doesn't come to you. You go to it.
Mech Automator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
Club4G Admin
 
Russ's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 4

Name: Russ Sanderlin
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 5,251
Rep Power: 22
Russ has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond reputeRuss has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
- All cars have the same power to weight ratio (Horsepower measured at the crank).
This takes AWD out of the running for the 1/4 and 1/2 mile, it might do okay in the 1/8 mile.
Russ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ptr149's Avatar
 

Name: Preston
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston
Vehicle: 2008 Subaru STi
Posts: 2,975
Rep Power: 12
ptr149 is a name known to allptr149 is a name known to allptr149 is a name known to allptr149 is a name known to allptr149 is a name known to all
Definately not rwd for the 1/8 and 1/4. I have to probably agree with you Boricuat, the AWD car will definately win the 1/8 mile and most likely the 1/4. And as long as the FWD car wasn't too far behind the RWD car it should win the 1/4 mile. It would also depend on how much better the launch of the AWD car is, so I could see any of the 3 winning the 1/2 mile race with a slight advantage to the FWD car.
__________________
08 STi - OpenSource tune // Inividia Catted Downpipe // Greddy SE Catback // AEM Intake // Tomei EL Headers// DW65 Fuel Pump // EngineLogics EBCS // PW TMIC
ptr149 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
illusionperformance
 
akley88's Avatar
 

Name: travis
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Reading, PA
Vehicle: 08 pathfinder - modded
Posts: 6,935
Rep Power: 13
akley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to behold
No offense but the fastest drag cars are rwd. When launched right there is no spinning of the tires. So depending on gearing rwd and awd is the closest. Fwd has no advantage in a standing start drag race unless it is geared better and that will only come into play in longer distances.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Modded Pathy
akley88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GotRice?'s Avatar
 

Name: Darren
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle-area
Vehicle: 13 g37x(now) 06 GT(then)
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 7
GotRice? is a jewel in the roughGotRice? is a jewel in the rough
Based on the ops prerequisites, i think he's trying to simply say, there are 3 girls. one has better hair, the other has bigger boobs and the last has a finer rear. Now which would you choose?

Okay, not exactly that but thinking in hypothetical, exact same car, only diff is drivetrain... then I think:

1/8: RWD, AWD, FWD. the question here is does the less-drivetrain-loss overcome better grip in about 7(ish) seconds?
1/4: RWD, FWD, AWD. very close to call...
1/2: FWD, RWD, AWD. surely long enough to make the least drivetrain loss the winner.
GotRice? is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GotRice?'s Avatar
 

Name: Darren
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle-area
Vehicle: 13 g37x(now) 06 GT(then)
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 7
GotRice? is a jewel in the roughGotRice? is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by akley88 View Post
No offense but the fastest drag cars are rwd. When launched right there is no spinning of the tires. So depending on gearing rwd and awd is the closest. Fwd has no advantage in a standing start drag race unless it is geared better and that will only come into play in longer distances.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2
I don't have a pic in front of me but don't those cars have rear mounted engines? meaning, the engine is closer to the rear wheels anyway. plus, can you imagine the aerodynamics of a drag race car with huge wheels in the front and bicycle wheels in the back?! that's be a funny car alright...
GotRice? is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
illusionperformance
 
akley88's Avatar
 

Name: travis
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Reading, PA
Vehicle: 08 pathfinder - modded
Posts: 6,935
Rep Power: 13
akley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotRice? View Post
I don't have a pic in front of me but don't those cars have rear mounted engines? meaning, the engine is closer to the rear wheels anyway. plus, can you imagine the aerodynamics of a drag race car with huge wheels in the front and bicycle wheels in the back?! that's be a funny car alright...
Yeah they r techinally rear engine rear wheel drives. I still think rwd and awd r the closest and could come down to driver. Its a very tough question to answer.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Modded Pathy
akley88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
Born to drive
 
eclipsercr2006's Avatar
 

Name: Mike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Port Saint Lucie,FL
Vehicle: 06/eclipse gt-t 6spd
Posts: 490
Rep Power: 11
eclipsercr2006 is on a distinguished road
How much hp do these cars have that plays a big factor?
__________________
rre ss,outlaw spacers,3''custom greddy,poly mounts;Hackish Reflash;proflow tb,one step colder plugs;custom cm stage 3 clutch w/lightweight flywheel;quaife lsd, brembros w/drilled/slotted,single turbo t4 borg warner s200 .53/.83, tial 38mm wastegate w/3.7lb spring & turbo xs manual boost controller 8.5lbs tuned,hks ssqv4 bov,440cc wrx injectors,dw65 fuel pump,
eclipsercr2006 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 28th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
illusionperformance
 
akley88's Avatar
 

Name: travis
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Reading, PA
Vehicle: 08 pathfinder - modded
Posts: 6,935
Rep Power: 13
akley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to beholdakley88 is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsercr2006 View Post
How much hp do these cars have that plays a big factor?
Thats a good point. Chris rados record holding fwd drag car needed 1800 horsepower to go sub 7 secs in the 1/4.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Modded Pathy
akley88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 29th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
BoRiCuAGT's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: PoNcE
Vehicle: 2006/Eclipse/GT
Posts: 509
Rep Power: 7
BoRiCuAGT will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech Automator View Post
rwd... rwd... rwd.

You may be right, but remember that all 3 are almost equal. The only difference is their driven wheels, and thus the HP lost through that specific setup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ View Post
This takes AWD out of the running for the 1/4 and 1/2 mile, it might do okay in the 1/8 mile.

Brave call!! But I think that could be a very realistic outcome considering that each car has the best driver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ptr149 View Post
Definately not rwd for the 1/8 and 1/4. I have to probably agree with you Boricuat, the AWD car will definately win the 1/8 mile and most likely the 1/4. And as long as the FWD car wasn't too far behind the RWD car it should win the 1/4 mile. It would also depend on how much better the launch of the AWD car is, so I could see any of the 3 winning the 1/2 mile race with a slight advantage to the FWD car.

All cars have the best driver, so you can expect the best launch for each car. I also give the FWD a slight advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by akley88 View Post
No offense but the fastest drag cars are rwd. When launched right there is no spinning of the tires. So depending on gearing rwd and awd is the closest. Fwd has no advantage in a standing start drag race unless it is geared better and that will only come into play in longer distances.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

No offence taken. Consider that each have the same gearing and power to weight ratio (at the crank). And, personally, I have seen many FWD cars at the track getting 2.0 secs. or less in the 60 feet measure with street tires. The launch advantage of RWD, considering expert drivers, would be very small.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GotRice? View Post
Based on the ops prerequisites, i think he's trying to simply say, there are 3 girls. one has better hair, the other has bigger boobs and the last has a finer rear. Now which would you choose?

Okay, not exactly that but thinking in hypothetical, exact same car, only diff is drivetrain... then I think:

1/8: RWD, AWD, FWD. the question here is does the less-drivetrain-loss overcome better grip in about 7(ish) seconds?
1/4: RWD, FWD, AWD. very close to call...
1/2: FWD, RWD, AWD. surely long enough to make the least drivetrain loss the winner.

I lol at your example of the 3 girls!! And your questions are the ones that everyone should consider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsercr2006 View Post
How much hp do these cars have that plays a big factor?

Ok, let's assume that all produce 300 BHP (at the crank), and the drivetrain losses are:
AWD: 19% = 252 WHP
RWD: 16% = 258 WHP
FWD: 13% = 265 WHP
BoRiCuAGT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
blue lightning
 
rgv4's Avatar
 

Name: aj
Join Date: May 2009
Location: edinburg,tx
Vehicle: 2006 mazdaspeed6,2005 rx8
Posts: 1,190
Rep Power: 9
rgv4 is a jewel in the roughrgv4 is a jewel in the rough
If they all have the same power and u lined em up together wouldnt the awd hold the lead through out?
__________________
Pushing 25psi on e85 Mods: Gtx3071r turbo/Tial EWG/Weisco Pistons/K1 Rods/Cometic head gasket/ARP main & head studs/JBR egr delete/3bar map sensor with pnp harness/Stratified ebc/CXracing fmic/Greddy type rs bpv/SURE 3.25" intake/CPE injector seals/Obx 3" dp/Magnaflow exhaust/KMD hpfp internals/SURE RMM/Whiteline rsb/H&R sport springs/SURE Differential mounts/Autolite plugs/Drag wheels/Cobb AP
rgv4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 30th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
stayer's Avatar
 

Name: Stas
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Russia,Perm
Vehicle: 2010 Galant9G 4G69MIVEC
Posts: 1,029
Rep Power: 7
stayer is a jewel in the roughstayer is a jewel in the rough
For proper acceleration to avoid wheel spin. For this important torque to the drive wheels. Torque is divided by the number of driven wheels. For example: torque of 200 Nm. The FWD and RWD will have 100 Nm to each wheel. And AWD will have a 50 Nm on each wheel. Therefore to compete in accelerating in this example, will be able to FWD and RWD. However, with the acceleration of the center of mass is shifted back and RWD receive additional load. When it FWD on the contrary, reduces the load on the wheel and are slipping.
However, the power and torque can't grow infinitely. There will come a time when the FWD and RWD will start spinning. Now at this time and win AWD. Because the torque at the wheels of the AWD will be less and it is able to digest more power. This is why the powerful and superpowerful cars are often used AWD.
If you have understood what I said...
stayer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 12:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
Born to drive
 
eclipsercr2006's Avatar
 

Name: Mike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Port Saint Lucie,FL
Vehicle: 06/eclipse gt-t 6spd
Posts: 490
Rep Power: 11
eclipsercr2006 is on a distinguished road
Well I'm just saying from experience not trying to start any argument or huge debate but all of us gt guys at least have been in the situation where in lets say a 300hp at the crank case take an average day for instance our gt w/bolt-ons tune,etc is roughly 300hp at the crank 350z same thing and lets say a wrx sti now we can walk all over the z in any race at this point wrx will get the jump of course but we can run'em down @ 90mph or so still being able to possibly take them in the 1/4 awd def wins the 1/8 hands down at this peticular hp rating but in other cases the fwd has the upper hand with the less drivetrain loss this is all taken from personal experience others may differ but just stating some input.
__________________
rre ss,outlaw spacers,3''custom greddy,poly mounts;Hackish Reflash;proflow tb,one step colder plugs;custom cm stage 3 clutch w/lightweight flywheel;quaife lsd, brembros w/drilled/slotted,single turbo t4 borg warner s200 .53/.83, tial 38mm wastegate w/3.7lb spring & turbo xs manual boost controller 8.5lbs tuned,hks ssqv4 bov,440cc wrx injectors,dw65 fuel pump,
eclipsercr2006 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 08:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
blue lightning
 
rgv4's Avatar
 

Name: aj
Join Date: May 2009
Location: edinburg,tx
Vehicle: 2006 mazdaspeed6,2005 rx8
Posts: 1,190
Rep Power: 9
rgv4 is a jewel in the roughrgv4 is a jewel in the rough
Idk about that man. My buddies hr 350z could only hit 14.1@98-100mph. I griends stock 2011 wrx (non sti) hit 13.8 stock. All i could hit with my fully bolted 4g was like 14.4 and a 13.3 with a 110 shot
__________________
Pushing 25psi on e85 Mods: Gtx3071r turbo/Tial EWG/Weisco Pistons/K1 Rods/Cometic head gasket/ARP main & head studs/JBR egr delete/3bar map sensor with pnp harness/Stratified ebc/CXracing fmic/Greddy type rs bpv/SURE 3.25" intake/CPE injector seals/Obx 3" dp/Magnaflow exhaust/KMD hpfp internals/SURE RMM/Whiteline rsb/H&R sport springs/SURE Differential mounts/Autolite plugs/Drag wheels/Cobb AP
rgv4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 09:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
The "Touring" Eclipse
 
HOMESLICE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
Vehicle: 08 Eclipse SE
Posts: 1,698
Rep Power: 8
HOMESLICE is a jewel in the roughHOMESLICE is a jewel in the rough
^nice man 13.3 is respectable for our cars. I'd actually be pretty happy with that number. thats STI-Evo-Stang territory
__________________
Modifications: Injen 3" SES Exhaust, Injen CAI, Tanabe Upper/Lower Strut Bars, TWM STS & Shift Knob, Ingalls Torque Damper, Outlaw IM/TB Spacers/TB Bypass, Eibach springs and Sway Bars front and rear, Ichiba Wheel Spacers, Ralliart Eyelids, Tint
6 and above is true love, 5 and below they'll never know
HOMESLICE is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 12:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mech Automator's Avatar
 

Name: Kevin
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle: 08/GS
Posts: 267
Rep Power: 7
Mech Automator has a spectacular aura about
You cannot start applying experience from gt vs sti vs fairlady z. That is against the whole point of this thread, you are comparing vastly different cars in respect to weight, distribution, and many other factors.
__________________
Success doesn't come to you. You go to it.
Mech Automator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 12:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
blue lightning
 
rgv4's Avatar
 

Name: aj
Join Date: May 2009
Location: edinburg,tx
Vehicle: 2006 mazdaspeed6,2005 rx8
Posts: 1,190
Rep Power: 9
rgv4 is a jewel in the roughrgv4 is a jewel in the rough
Thanks man. That was untuned as well but a big wet shot. In my speed im at a 13.0 with a 107 trap and 1.6 60'. Gonna rebuild my engine and get a gtx3071r kit in a couple of months
__________________
Pushing 25psi on e85 Mods: Gtx3071r turbo/Tial EWG/Weisco Pistons/K1 Rods/Cometic head gasket/ARP main & head studs/JBR egr delete/3bar map sensor with pnp harness/Stratified ebc/CXracing fmic/Greddy type rs bpv/SURE 3.25" intake/CPE injector seals/Obx 3" dp/Magnaflow exhaust/KMD hpfp internals/SURE RMM/Whiteline rsb/H&R sport springs/SURE Differential mounts/Autolite plugs/Drag wheels/Cobb AP
rgv4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 01:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
BlackGuard Motorsports
 
Isamu's Avatar
 
3 Highscores
Tournaments Won: 3

Name: Isamu
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Worldwide
Vehicle: 300zx(TT) nismo 370z(T)
Posts: 16,085
Rep Power: 28
Isamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant future
in all honesty... with the best driver in the world behind the wheel of each car.. the AWD/RWD cars will have it, for the 1/8th 1/4 and the 1/2 in the OPs "perfect world" example of course for the distance, the one with the least amount of DT loss will the at distance...so it would probably be the fwd...but thats all a dream...
start this thread about a road course and you will see things change drastically..
__________________
2010 Z34 NISMO Single Turbo
Isamu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 01:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
The "Touring" Eclipse
 
HOMESLICE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
Vehicle: 08 Eclipse SE
Posts: 1,698
Rep Power: 8
HOMESLICE is a jewel in the roughHOMESLICE is a jewel in the rough
^if we were to look at a road course, would FWD have any benefit at all? or would AWD, RWD decimate all?
__________________
Modifications: Injen 3" SES Exhaust, Injen CAI, Tanabe Upper/Lower Strut Bars, TWM STS & Shift Knob, Ingalls Torque Damper, Outlaw IM/TB Spacers/TB Bypass, Eibach springs and Sway Bars front and rear, Ichiba Wheel Spacers, Ralliart Eyelids, Tint
6 and above is true love, 5 and below they'll never know
HOMESLICE is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 01:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mech Automator's Avatar
 

Name: Kevin
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle: 08/GS
Posts: 267
Rep Power: 7
Mech Automator has a spectacular aura about
toque steer off the road with fwd
__________________
Success doesn't come to you. You go to it.
Mech Automator is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 03:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
chucknasty
 
chucknasty01eclipse's Avatar
 

Name: charles
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: maryland
Vehicle: 99 corvette
Posts: 558
Rep Power: 5
chucknasty01eclipse will become famous soon enough
well one thing that helps beating cars with more horsepower is that many companies lie. look at the dynos of these cars and you see what i mean. hell 350z's only do like 230 at the wheels stock (03 manuals). another thing is that mitsubishi usually does good with pinion gear ratios to keep acceleration up. BUT front wheel drive mostly sucks because when you take off all cars naturally squat back (act of force being applied and accelerating forwards blah blah blah). so with front wheel drive the act of squatting kills off the line performance and makes you spin easily. rear wheel drive is better since the squat actually aids in traction. all wheel drive has ups and downs. you can launch harder yes but it is not great fro the transmission or differentials to take that abuse (you have power going to all 4 wheels yes but the weak link is then the tranny/diff since all the power still goes through them). also all wheel drive technically makes you slower. how? think about it, it take more force to drive 4 wheels than 2. simple physics. all wheel drive is great for traction. so in my opinon i like rear wheel drive the most and if you take a rear wheel drive car with lightweight driveshaft versus a front wheel drive car with identical gear ratios, pinion gear and such i bet the rear wheel would win.
__________________
2007 corvette - f55 package, zr1 front sway, z51 rear sway

1984 corvette - z51 package, stainless brake lines, borla exhaust, gutted cat
chucknasty01eclipse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 05:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
BlackGuard Motorsports
 
Isamu's Avatar
 
3 Highscores
Tournaments Won: 3

Name: Isamu
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Worldwide
Vehicle: 300zx(TT) nismo 370z(T)
Posts: 16,085
Rep Power: 28
Isamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucknasty01eclipse View Post
well one thing that helps beating cars with more horsepower is that many companies lie. look at the dynos of these cars and you see what i mean. hell 350z's only do like 230 at the wheels stock (03 manuals). another thing is that mitsubishi usually does good with pinion gear ratios to keep acceleration up. BUT front wheel drive mostly sucks because when you take off all cars naturally squat back (act of force being applied and accelerating forwards blah blah blah). so with front wheel drive the act of squatting kills off the line performance and makes you spin easily. rear wheel drive is better since the squat actually aids in traction. all wheel drive has ups and downs. you can launch harder yes but it is not great fro the transmission or differentials to take that abuse (you have power going to all 4 wheels yes but the weak link is then the tranny/diff since all the power still goes through them). also all wheel drive technically makes you slower. how? think about it, it take more force to drive 4 wheels than 2. simple physics. all wheel drive is great for traction. so in my opinon i like rear wheel drive the most and if you take a rear wheel drive car with lightweight driveshaft versus a front wheel drive car with identical gear ratios, pinion gear and such i bet the rear wheel would win.
try to separate your thoughts, they would come through more clearly.. and your points wouldn't lose validity...
secondly, some of your data is skewed... true, but skewed. also, in the OPs post he said all cars where equal aside from the drive train
__________________
2010 Z34 NISMO Single Turbo
Isamu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 07:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
chucknasty
 
chucknasty01eclipse's Avatar
 

Name: charles
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: maryland
Vehicle: 99 corvette
Posts: 558
Rep Power: 5
chucknasty01eclipse will become famous soon enough
didnt want to go into too much detail so i tried to simplify it. that and i just didn't want to type up a physics paper on club4g on physics under acceleration and drivetrain losses versus the squatting created by accelerating and the fulcrum effect going on
__________________
2007 corvette - f55 package, zr1 front sway, z51 rear sway

1984 corvette - z51 package, stainless brake lines, borla exhaust, gutted cat
chucknasty01eclipse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 10:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
resident crossplatformer
 
fox_brand's Avatar
 

Name: -
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Vehicle: 1999 Galant
Posts: 1,377
Rep Power: 7
fox_brand is a jewel in the roughfox_brand is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ View Post
This takes AWD out of the running for the 1/4 and 1/2 mile, it might do okay in the 1/8 mile.
agreed with it doing the best in the 1/8 mile well assuming AWD has the usual greater drivetrain loss over FWD and RWD, the GTR has iirc a 12% drivetrain loss, so assuming that isn't the case

also how the suspension is set up plays a role here a great deal if the power is very great and the weight is low, however if say we have three cars all weighing, say 2700 lbs and all three have and, say, 130 bhp, this would be a much smaller role in the long run, if this is a sort of 2000 hp/2300 pound bracket, suspension and drivetrain playsa huge roll that would change the results, as the saying goes, 'the race is won or lost at the starting line'

for the regular old car with the 'ideal' suspension (for both senarios, maxed out stiffness for the rear shocks and springs for the FWD car, normal stiffness for the front suspension, increased in rear ride height, the stiffest front sway bar imaginable, for the RWD relatively soft rear suspension (both springs and shocks, the ride height is increased (this and the latter improves the weight transfer), out back a very stiff rear sway bar and/or a traction bar set up, rear shocks are stiffened asymmetrically to reduce wheel hop if it has a solid rear axle, for AWD, the stiffest front and rear sway bars possible, due to with the AWD given weight distribution, about 10% stiffer rear springs and shocks, and maybe just some fine tuning)
my guesstimates are
1/8 mile AWD due to the greater grip off the line, but just barely
1/4 mile RWD as it has less drivetrain loss but barely over the FWD
1/2 mile FWD as it has the lowest drivetrain loss

for the 1500hp/2300 pound drag cars with the ideal suspension
1/8 mile AWD, also just because it has the most grip but the drivetrain loss will always come into play here
1/4 mile RWD, it has more grip than the FWD car and less drivetrain loss than the AWD car
1/2 mile RWD, even with the across the board increase in power, the gap the RWD car makes ahead of the FWD car is maintained to the 1/2 mile mark


HOWEVER, if there was a 1 mile mark, the FWD car would come out on top for the drag cars
fox_brand is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 1st, 2012, 11:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
BoRiCuAGT's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: PoNcE
Vehicle: 2006/Eclipse/GT
Posts: 509
Rep Power: 7
BoRiCuAGT will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgv4 View Post
If they all have the same power and u lined em up together wouldnt the awd hold the lead through out?

They have the same power at the crank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stayer View Post
For proper acceleration to avoid wheel spin. For this important torque to the drive wheels. Torque is divided by the number of driven wheels. For example: torque of 200 Nm. The FWD and RWD will have 100 Nm to each wheel. And AWD will have a 50 Nm on each wheel. Therefore to compete in accelerating in this example, will be able to FWD and RWD. However, with the acceleration of the center of mass is shifted back and RWD receive additional load. When it FWD on the contrary, reduces the load on the wheel and are slipping.
However, the power and torque can't grow infinitely. There will come a time when the FWD and RWD will start spinning. Now at this time and win AWD. Because the torque at the wheels of the AWD will be less and it is able to digest more power. This is why the powerful and superpowerful cars are often used AWD.
If you have understood what I said...

I liked your reasoning, and learned a thing or 2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HOMESLICE View Post
^if we were to look at a road course, would FWD have any benefit at all? or would AWD, RWD decimate all?

In a road course, we all know that the RWD and AWD will have a tough battle and the FWD will be several cars behind. Just play in the drag world for now, were we might have a chance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chucknasty01eclipse View Post
well one thing that helps beating cars with more horsepower is that many companies lie. look at the dynos of these cars and you see what i mean. hell 350z's only do like 230 at the wheels stock (03 manuals). another thing is that mitsubishi usually does good with pinion gear ratios to keep acceleration up. BUT front wheel drive mostly sucks because when you take off all cars naturally squat back (act of force being applied and accelerating forwards blah blah blah). so with front wheel drive the act of squatting kills off the line performance and makes you spin easily. rear wheel drive is better since the squat actually aids in traction. all wheel drive has ups and downs. you can launch harder yes but it is not great fro the transmission or differentials to take that abuse (you have power going to all 4 wheels yes but the weak link is then the tranny/diff since all the power still goes through them). also all wheel drive technically makes you slower. how? think about it, it take more force to drive 4 wheels than 2. simple physics. all wheel drive is great for traction. so in my opinon i like rear wheel drive the most and if you take a rear wheel drive car with lightweight driveshaft versus a front wheel drive car with identical gear ratios, pinion gear and such i bet the rear wheel would win.

I know about the false claims of some companies, but for the thread, let's assume that all engines were tested in the BHP dyno first, were they made an even 300 BHP. Then, they were put in 3 identical cars, with different layouts, and the manufacturers made all the possible efforts to keep the same weight in all cars.
BoRiCuAGT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 2nd, 2012, 05:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
chucknasty
 
chucknasty01eclipse's Avatar
 

Name: charles
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: maryland
Vehicle: 99 corvette
Posts: 558
Rep Power: 5
chucknasty01eclipse will become famous soon enough
same gear ratios, power, car, and such and awd would be slowest, then front wheel drive then rear wheel drive. front wheel drive would spin off the line and possibly in other gears from power transfer making it squat and loss traction, all wheel drive is only fast off the line if you don't care about breaking transmissions (nissan learned this the hard way with the GTR 3 launches trans shatters), rear wheel drive with a LSD is best since the squatting aids in traction and has far less drivetrain loss then all wheel but a little more than front wheel. what makes front wheel drive fast is the final drive gear ratios they use, not the physics of having front wheel drive. front wheel drive with its least drivetrain loss and 4.10 final drive versus a rear wheel drive with 3.27 rear of course the front wheel drive will win but the rear wheel will accelerate longer thus higher lop speed.
__________________
2007 corvette - f55 package, zr1 front sway, z51 rear sway

1984 corvette - z51 package, stainless brake lines, borla exhaust, gutted cat
chucknasty01eclipse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
BlackGuard Motorsports
 
Isamu's Avatar
 
3 Highscores
Tournaments Won: 3

Name: Isamu
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Worldwide
Vehicle: 300zx(TT) nismo 370z(T)
Posts: 16,085
Rep Power: 28
Isamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant futureIsamu has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucknasty01eclipse View Post
same gear ratios, power, car, and such and awd would be slowest, then front wheel drive then rear wheel drive. front wheel drive would spin off the line and possibly in other gears from power transfer making it squat and loss traction, all wheel drive is only fast off the line if you don't care about breaking transmissions (nissan learned this the hard way with the GTR 3 launches trans shatters), rear wheel drive with a LSD is best since the squatting aids in traction and has far less drivetrain loss then all wheel but a little more than front wheel. what makes front wheel drive fast is the final drive gear ratios they use, not the physics of having front wheel drive. front wheel drive with its least drivetrain loss and 4.10 final drive versus a rear wheel drive with 3.27 rear of course the front wheel drive will win but the rear wheel will accelerate longer thus higher lop speed.
ok, we can't even begin to bring the GTR into this, because it's an unusual monster with its DT loss being lower then most RWD cars...

and dude, you really need to get your facts straight, it wasn't 3 launches and the trans shatters... there was an issue with the launch control being retarded hard on the first incarnation of the R35, but this has since been addressed...
there is a reason the GTR is the best bang for your buck in the 100k range
__________________
2010 Z34 NISMO Single Turbo
Isamu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
art, car, cars, ding, drivers, horsepower, how to, loss, pick, power, race, reduction, short, tires, weight, wheels

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Real Name
What name do you go by?
Location
Where you live.
Type of Car
Year/Model/Trim
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World's Greatest Drag Race 2! ChrisB Motorsports (Racing) 15 August 30th, 2012 01:28 PM
AWD or RWD? OrangeDemon Driveline 9 August 8th, 2011 09:33 AM
Stolen Civic returned drag race ready psy-q The Lounge 4 April 26th, 2010 04:49 PM
MitsuTrackDay - 4G AT x 4G MT - Drag Race zikizira Motorsports (Racing) 9 August 12th, 2009 12:25 AM
**drag Race High** AceIsFromJapan Other cars 21 March 15th, 2009 03:39 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger