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Old February 27th, 2007, 01:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Lifter tick / Diesel-sounding idle

Are you detonating? Feel like you've got circus fleas in your cylinder head?

Go figure. You've got MIVEC. In a nutshell, no you don't have to fill your car up with diesel next time - and no you don't have to put jet fuel in it either. MIVEC (or in layman's terms, variable valve timing) involves a secondary track/set of lobes in the camshaft used in engaging that extra set of valve lifters (your beloved MIVEC lifters). These MIVEC lifters, when not engaged, simply "flop around" with the camshaft unless engaged - during which you get that mini-turbo, ass-to-seat... ish... feeling, moreso if you have a V6 than an i4.

Now, as carried over from the 4G section of Club3G, some have said that lifter adjustment both reduces the ticking noise in the cylinder head and increases power. I'll have to say (and with a certain ManyBrews' blessing hopefully) that adjustment, unless absolutely necessary, is really unnecessary. If anything, overadjustment (i.e. decreasing valve clearance) will likely cause the engine to overheat quicker than if left with the regular gap.

So much for "layman's" explanations, huh? Time to learn more about engines then - www.howstuffworks.com
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Old February 27th, 2007, 07:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old February 28th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Oh... just in case I was too harsh, let me also just add that in the event that your car starts sounding like a diesel TRUCK...

...



... check your oil. It's probably below 1/4
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Old March 27th, 2009, 08:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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One time I was doing donuts at the racetrack park (which is dumb and dumber, and won't do it again) and then I popped the hood because it kinda smelled like burned ('t was the tires by the way), and noticed that tlak tlak tlak tlak sound.. I was scared! lol, but my car was just saying MIVEC MIVEC MIVEC
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Old March 27th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've just started noticing this on my car too.

Piece of mind knowing it's nothing to worry about.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah it really won't be too loud unless you pop the hood on a freshly-started engine. The lifter tick really is due to the hanging Mivec lifters that of course get engaged hydraulically.

The CT9A 4G63s had this problem quite a bit, but there wat was a TSB-related issue that had something to do with the lifters gumming up easily. Another reason why you want to maintain your good regular oil change routine

But yeah, nothing to be worried about, though I'm sure if and when you're ready to do some valve adjustment, some cleaning of the lifters might help.

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Old March 27th, 2009, 11:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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thats good to know i was just going to turbo it and have a turbo diesel haha.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 11:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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maybe this is the sound im hearing but only when the car is really hot and warmed up and im idleing could this be?
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Pretty much. As stated in the original post, it's the secondary set of high lobes (or technically, the high lobes themselves - low and med lift being low and regular "high" lift cam profiles, per Mitsu) that's only engaged hydraulically. While disengaged the corresponding valve tappets just flop along freely as the camshaft spins about. Hence your "tapping" sound that's typical only in either 4-cyls or diesels. Only when engaged hydraulically (per the ECU) do they lock, and that's when you "feel" MIVEC.

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Old October 3rd, 2009, 06:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i gotcha thanks yeah i only hear when idel when the motor is hott
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 07:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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SEAFOOAM!

everytime i see / hear the word seafoam i think of that motorcycle guy who put the NOS energy drink in his motorcycle!! lmao
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 09:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i dnt wanna start a huge thing but does seafoam work and does it hurt ur car in anyway cant it gunk up the converter????
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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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^ It's meant to address just that. It's a multipurpose flush for engine or fuel.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 12:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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its meant to clug ur cat. converter???
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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippercream View Post
Pretty much. As stated in the original post, it's the secondary set of high lobes (or technically, the high lobes themselves - low and med lift being low and regular "high" lift cam profiles, per Mitsu) that's only engaged hydraulically. While disengaged the corresponding valve tappets just flop along freely as the camshaft spins about. Hence your "tapping" sound that's typical only in either 4-cyls or diesels. Only when engaged hydraulically (per the ECU) do they lock, and that's when you "feel" MIVEC.

Slipper...

I'm confused by some of your statement... "While disengaged the corresponding valve tappets just flop along freely as the camshaft spins about." There's only one set of tappets on top of the valves...when the ECU triggers the OCV solenoids to allow oil pressure in, the pistons on the rocker arms move into position which allows the high lift lever to make contact with the rocker arms, thereby running the valves off the high lift cam.

I guess it's not important though...what concerns me is that while this "MAY" cause some "ticking" when not engaged (don't know for sure as I've never been in there), that doesn't mean that it is FOR SURE the cause of what everyone is hearing.

This style of manually adjustable tappet is generally noisier than other methods like shim-under-bucket for example. My point is that the "ticking" noise could very well be from the tappets themselves and the valves could need adjusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippercream View Post
Now, as carried over from the 4G section of Club3G, some have said that lifter adjustment both reduces the ticking noise in the cylinder head and increases power. I'll have to say (and with a certain ManyBrews' blessing hopefully) that adjustment, unless absolutely necessary, is really unnecessary. If anything, overadjustment (i.e. decreasing valve clearance) will likely cause the engine to overheat quicker than if left with the regular gap.
While I agree that the valves may not need adjusting everytime, they should still be checked, especially if the "ticking" sound becomes louder and more prominent. These lifters will wear and get loose which causes increased noise and less power. If the clearance measures .008", then no, they don't need adjusted, but they have to be checked in order to determine that.

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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i had this since i got the car and the dealer has even adjusted the valves and i still hear it.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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^^^ Well, like I said, a certain amount of ticking will be normal from an .008" clearance on an adjustable tappet style rocker. As long as you've had it checked don't worry about it.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 09:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Brian --- excellent catch! I'm sorry, I did have a MAJOR typo there - you're right, it's not the tappets but the rocker arms. NOT the tappets. My bad My play on words backfired. Actually, it's not as simple as just saying the rocker arms "flop about freely" either, because it's really not that.

Your first paragraph is dead on. But insofar as my understanding of how the high lift lobes are engaged, the "lever" and rollers that engage the center lobes (high valve lift) is only locked in place, as you said, by the oil control valve (OCV). This lever is T- shaped, and until such time that pistons are engaged hydraulically to lock the "T" firmly in place against the rest of the rocker arm, it's left to "flop" about freely, "tapping" about against the intake rocker arm as the rollers are constantly in contact with the high lift cam. Like you said, PCM sends the control over to the OCV, pistons are locked, and intake rocker arm "lifts" not to the low or middle lift cams but the highs, by virtue of the locked center "T-lever".

But yes, adjustment may be necessary, but I don't know more than what's on my car (for which the gap has has always been within tolerance). And yes, even new 6G75s have this tick. Constant adjustment isn't necessary, as you would in an older vehicle - but checking for valve tappet clearance wouldn't hurt. Last I checked it doesn't actually need to be done in regular intervals (per maintenance schedule), unlike in the 4G64.

Thanks for the correction, Brian!


EDIT: And oh, those camshafts are from my spare, which supposedly had 47xxx miles on it The heads were still in pristine condition, and likewise, gap was also within spec. So again, what I knew before held true. Doesn't mean that it won't for others
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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mitsubishi did issue an amendment to the service intervals for checking the valve clearance...they want it done every 30,000 miles as shown here:

http://www.mitsubishieclipseforum.co...ADJUSTMENT.pdf

Also, something I didn't realize...the GS doesn't have hydraulic exhaust lifters like the GT does. This means that the exhaust valves also need to be checked/adjusted on the GS.

For an explanation of the 'mivec' system you can look at the drawings here:

http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/2006...002600-11B.pdf
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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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yeah my book says every 30,000 miles or as needed.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:40 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well fuck me ten times sideways - way to prove me wrong again!

Ok... folks, listen to what Brian says from now on. I am shamed





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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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do u guys still think the noise in normal for a gs than???
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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Far as I've seen on the 4G6x it's pretty common. But as Brian said, go ahead and check the gap.

The following are the valve clearances for both the 6G75-M and 4G69:

Valve Clearances
 Intake Exhaust
6G75-M 0.10 mm 0.03 / 0.004 in 0.001 * not adjustable *
4G69-M 0.11 mm / 0.004 in 0.20 mm / 0.008 in

Thanks again, Brian, for the update! I never knew this TSB existed!
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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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SLIPPER...

Where did you get that 6G75 intake valve spec? The original service manual shows .008" with no +/- margin...did they issue an update to show .004" +/- .001"?

***EDIT***

It also shows the 4G69 at .008" intake and .012" exhaust, no margin
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Nope, I'm looking at the original '06 FSM too! For the 3.8L. Are you maybe looking at the service specs for the i4?
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Nope, I'm looking at the original '06 FSM too! For the 3.8L. Are you maybe looking at the service specs for the i4?
What page numbers are you looking at???

It also shows the 4G69 at .008" intake and .012" exhaust, no margin
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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geez, How many times am I supposed to reopen this thing... hold up...




4G69 specs are on 11B-70.
6G75 specs, 11D-68.

That's on the '06, of course.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #29 (permalink)
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We need a tech to verify this mess. JUSTIN ??!??!?@

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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #30 (permalink)
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WOW...

Check out pages 11C-12 and 11C-68 for the V6...they BOTH state .008"

For the I-4 it's pages 11A-11 and 11A-66...the BOTH state .008" and .012"

Here's the fucked up part...these are the pages that show how to do the valve adjustments...so if techs have been using these pages like they're supposed to, then EVERYONE'S valves are looser than they should be, assuming your numbers are correct.

The page numbers you quoted were both in the engine overhaul section, as if you were rebuilding the whole thing...which would RARELY be viewed if ever) by most techs. If you go to the Index page and look at the pages listed for doing valve adjustments they link you to MY pages...not yours...so every tech in the country has been using the larger specs...
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Honestly, who would know which specs are correct??? You'd have to get ahold of an engineer at mitsu or something.

I've seen wide ranges on motorcycles, but .012" seems WAY too much on the exhaust for the I-4. And actually, .004" +/- .001" seems a little low for a motor that's warranteed for 100,000 miles. I would've expected to see .004 -.006 on the intake and .006 - .008 on the exhaust for the I-4 and .004 - .006 on the intake for the V-6.

Damn, .012" on the exhaust valves for the I-4...no wonder it's noisy as hell...
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Old October 6th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
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ok this dont sound good at all than i just had mine done at the dealer last oct. It says CUSTOMER STATES CHECK AND ADJUST VALVES IF NEEDED, CHECK VALVE LASH. RR VALVE COVER ADJUST INTAKE AND EXHAUST VALES. GASKET OK AT THIS TIME. TEST DRIVE VALVES SOUND GOOD. The best part is they know it only makes noise in my car at idle. Im getting pretty pissed off bout this whole mess it seems like all of u guys know way more than the dealers and when i go there they just wanna argue with me instead of trying to figure everything out. they chagred me 187.50 for the adjustment. I cant even remember if the noise got better but that guy did say the tech found 2 that were out of spec.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 09:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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i check my guide and it says 8 and 12 also did u contact anyone bout this?
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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:48 AM   #34 (permalink)
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if it makes noise at idle and goes away, its not valve adjustment. ur lifters MAY need to be bled, but im not sure. I talked to my manager about this and he said if it goes away when you rev or when the car is on, then its not the lash adjustment, because noise from excessive lash play is not going to go away when the car is warm/hot/above-idle.

he said i might have to bleed my valves in diesel fuel.

but ill have to double check.

and as for the manual, i think i remember 2 seperate specs. one for adjustment when the engines cold and one for when its hot. and i believe you only adjust one set (intake or exhaust, i forgot).
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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:51 AM   #35 (permalink)
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ill go to work and bprint something out, i know there was a techtalk article that was released on this issue.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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He's got a GS, his lifters are manual adjust...nothing to bleed. Mitsubishi just messed up in the manual, it's either one or the other on the specs, not both.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:15 AM   #37 (permalink)
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mine gets very bad when its cold, like today its baddd
i hate it, its annoying, every time i go drive through someone tells me i'm low on oil or i need an oil change.. every time oil was just changed 1.5k miles ago
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Old October 16th, 2009, 10:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Howdy,

It's starting to be winter here in Maine and I JUST herd this noise as well... I took it over to Midas and they told me to change my oil to synthetic, and to check my oil fuel levels as well. Is this something that needs to be checked because it will cause harm to my car? What should I do in this case.

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Old October 16th, 2009, 11:29 PM   #39 (permalink)
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If u did the 30 and they were checked then u are fine. It's just lifter tick.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 03:43 AM   #40 (permalink)
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^^^ yep, should be fine...if you feel it's louder than normal for some reason, take it to the mitsu dealer and have them listen/check it out...it's still under warranty if there's a problem...
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