Standalone ECU VS Piggy Back Computer Quick and Dirty Guide - Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority
Support Our Troops!         
 

Go Back   Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority > Performance and Technical > Tuning and Electronics

Tuning and Electronics This forum is for tuning devices for the 4g eclipse from piggyback systems to full Stand Alones, Fuel Controllers, EGT readings, Data logging, PCM tuning, Air/Fuel readings and data. Discussions of Installations, Wiring & Tuning.


Welcome to the Club4G Forums where you can join fellow owners from all over North America discussing anything related to the 2006+ Mitsubishi Eclipse. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. To gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, you must register today!

  • Participate in over 100 specialized forums!
  • Get event information regarding meets, mod days and help in our regionalized forums.
  • Gain access to our classified marketplace to buy, sell or trade parts.
  • Levarage a vast collection of Do-It-Yourself guides on steps on working on your Eclipse
  • Access to the growing online parts directory which gives you insight on available parts and the vendors that carry them.
  • Communicate privately with other owners.

All of this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account. Sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 21st, 2008, 09:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ronron112's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GS TURBO
Posts: 791
Rep Power: 11
ronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant future
Standalone ECU VS Piggy Back Computer Quick and Dirty Guide

Standalone ecu vs a piggy back computer
(I think it is physically possible to write a 500 page book on this so I will try to be brief and cut out as much of the fat as possible – stick to the essentials… hopefully)

So your car is boosted from the factory, or your car has been equipped with aftermarket boost or you have an n/a car and are planning on boosting whatever the case, you are interested in buying an aftermarket computer but you are a little confused, its o.k we have all been there, most of us still are (including me – the blind leading the blind in this article ? ) So which ecu is best for you? This umbrella question encompasses a whole host of other questions all of which I will try to address.

First we should understand how and what engine parameters your ecu takes in to determine the tune of your car. There are three main parameters (maps) when tuning your car:
1.) Fuel (A/F Ratio)
2.) Cam angle *note*
3.) Ignition timing

*note* When I talk about cam angle, I will be referring to today’s newer cars with variable cam timing…

O.K. so your car uses these three parameters to build a “map” or tune for your vehicle.

Next let’s explain what a standalone ecu and piggy back ecu are and what they can and can’t do.

Stand Alone ECU
There are many different types of stand alone ecu’s that all encompass their own unique features, to many to talk about, so I will try to stick to the roots of the equipment.
A stand alone ecu is an ecu that is separate from your cars stock ecu (in most cases, Hondata would be an exception). A standalone ecu lets you build new ignition cam angle and ignition maps for your car, starting from scratch. This is the main difference between a piggy back and standalone and also the most important so I think I’ll leave it at that.




Piggy back ECU and or A/F Controller

Again, like the standalone ecu, there are many different types of piggy backs with their own unique functions. A piggy back ecu or a/f controller takes signals from your sensors and modifies them to trick your ecu into reading a different value.


Ok. So which ecu is for you. Once having a fairly in depth idea (more then the knowledge base that this article provided) of how your ecu builds maps and how a piggy back and standalone ecu work the answer should become quite obvious.

If you have a n/a car and you are planning on boosting it, there really is only one reasonable choice. A stand alone ecu. This is because a naturally aspirated cars ecu is programmed for a na engine. The main concern is your ignition timing. An na tuned car (i.e your stock car) will have ignition maps that are way to advanced for a boosted application causing detonation, which is detrimental to your engine.
Well doesn’t a a/f controller and piggy back computer control ignition timing?
Yes but not effectively. An a/f controller takes readings from your maf/map sensor and alters them trick your ecu into reading a different signal. And since all your maps are tied in together, your maf/map sensor signal also will move where your ecu reads its ignition timing on the map. your maf/map is not only used to maintain air/fuel, but its also used by the ecu to determine load, and load is used for determining timing advance, this has the side effect of fooling the ecu into advancing timing beyond what is safe. These readings will also effect where your cam angle is, which more then likely will not be at the optimal angle for your boosted application.

Newer piggy backs like the e-manage ultimate can control your ignition timing separately from your airflow readings, but there are still catches. You are able to change ignition timing maps but the e-manage simply changes the output signal the ecu sends to the coils. The problem is the ignition timing numbers are not always consistent with the changes you make to the load sensor, whether its your map, or maf sensor. So you are guessing the timing numbers. The stock ecu also has multiple maps it can run for different conditions so you are not always consistent with the tune.

A stand alone ecu lets you build, from scratch, completely new ignition timing maps and fuel maps and cam angle maps. Optimal for your boosted application so you can run a safer tune that will make more power.

A car that has come from the factory already has optimal ignition timing maps and there for really only needs a a/f controller or a piggy back that can compensate in a relatively small window range. Unless you plan on drastically changing your stock boosted air flow characteristics, a piggy back will suit you just fine.


TO ALL MY TURBO FRIENDS OUT THERE IN THE 4G COMMUNITY, PLEASE GO STANDALONE.
__________________
2006 Eclipse GS-Turbo - 262 WHP / 255 TORQUE / 2007 Eclipse GS (BONE STOCK) - Daily


93.5 Toyota Supra ++BW S400SX3 67 FMW / GSC S1 Cams / HKS TI / RPS CC / Meth / GFORCE+ ...720WHP (LOW BOOST)
ronron112 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MeCks|One's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Vehicle: 08 Eclipse GS
Posts: 328
Rep Power: 12
MeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud of
quick and dirtyyy
MeCks|One is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
The dick of JUSTICE
 
psy-q's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle: 2005 Galant ES
Posts: 3,088
Rep Power: 17
psy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond repute
Emanage may be a bad idea with Greddy going under though
__________________
Quality provider of condescension, superciliousness and ostentation since 1981
The Club4G "Unofficial" Rules. We demand obedience.
psy-q is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old October 23rd, 2008, 10:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Vehicle: 2006 eclipse GT
Posts: 22
Rep Power: 0
stts elipse is an unknown quantity at this point
which stand alone ecu's are out there i ant find any
stts elipse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 23rd, 2008, 11:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
itsreu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Vehicle: 2004 Galant GTS
Posts: 118
Rep Power: 10
itsreu is on a distinguished road
my boy has an emanage with his boosted 3g. its always fightin with the stock ecu
itsreu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 24th, 2008, 12:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MeCks|One's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Vehicle: 08 Eclipse GS
Posts: 328
Rep Power: 12
MeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud ofMeCks|One has much to be proud of
haltech, microtech... those are the 2 i know the most about... no harnesses but i know they work wonders on mitsu motors
MeCks|One is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 24th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
What Drives You?
 
Slippercream's Avatar
 

Name: Kibo... past, present, and Future
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Home= ATX. Work= All over.
Vehicle: 06GT, 09GT, 01GT-T, 14MR
Posts: 9,322
Rep Power: 29
Slippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond reputeSlippercream has a reputation beyond repute
AEM, MoTeC, Superchips, Perfect Power, Megasquirt...

They're a dime a dozen.
__________________
http://www.club3g.com/forum/images/smilies/retard.gif D + D + D = ____________
________________________________________________
"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth that God governs in the affairs of men.
And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?" - Benjamin Franklin
Slippercream is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 24th, 2008, 01:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ronron112's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GS TURBO
Posts: 791
Rep Power: 11
ronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant futureronron112 has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreu View Post
my boy has an emanage with his boosted 3g. its always fightin with the stock ecu
Lol, emange aint a standalone, its a piggyback
__________________
2006 Eclipse GS-Turbo - 262 WHP / 255 TORQUE / 2007 Eclipse GS (BONE STOCK) - Daily


93.5 Toyota Supra ++BW S400SX3 67 FMW / GSC S1 Cams / HKS TI / RPS CC / Meth / GFORCE+ ...720WHP (LOW BOOST)
ronron112 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old February 8th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Vehicle: 2004 Mitsu Ralliart Turbo
Posts: 146
Rep Power: 9
Ralliart_on_lsd has a spectacular aura about
Has any stand alone ECU's been plugged in and PROVEN to work for a 4g69 4 cyl motor yet?
Ralliart_on_lsd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old February 9th, 2009, 09:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Vehicle: 2004 Mitsu Ralliart Turbo
Posts: 146
Rep Power: 9
Ralliart_on_lsd has a spectacular aura about
bump... anybody here AT ALL have a stand alone working fine on a 4g69. The only one i know of is in australlia running a haltech. car is basically built by RPW.

is there any other cars with our motor running a stand alone?
Ralliart_on_lsd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old February 9th, 2009, 10:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
The dick of JUSTICE
 
psy-q's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle: 2005 Galant ES
Posts: 3,088
Rep Power: 17
psy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond reputepsy-q has a reputation beyond repute
I don't think it's been done since nobody has really had the need to push a 4G69 passed a piggyback's limitations.
__________________
Quality provider of condescension, superciliousness and ostentation since 1981
The Club4G "Unofficial" Rules. We demand obedience.
psy-q is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old February 9th, 2009, 06:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TwilsonD7's Avatar
 

Name: Thomas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stroudsburg PA
Vehicle: 2008/Eclipse/GT
Posts: 5,014
Rep Power: 16
TwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud ofTwilsonD7 has much to be proud of
Greddys going under?? Get the fuck out of here...
TwilsonD7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old April 9th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
CG_Eclipse's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle: 2009/Eclipse/GT-PP
Posts: 53
Rep Power: 10
CG_Eclipse is on a distinguished road
Hello everyone... Where i live ive seen the 4g69 running a few different stand alone units... they are mounted in lancer ralliarts but it should be about the same in the eclipse gs, most of them ive heard are on SDS , microtech and megasquirt and running 300+ fwhp

do any of you know which AEM EMS would work for the GT??
CG_Eclipse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old July 1st, 2012, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Vehicle: 2009 Eclipse GS
Posts: 694
Rep Power: 7
ShipyardWelder is a jewel in the roughShipyardWelder is a jewel in the rough
i want to run stand alone, I want to be the one of the first 25 pound Plus boosted 4 cyl auto either Super charged or Turbo im still fighting myself.
Im looking at mega squirt but im retarded at trying to figure out which one would work.

Im not going to piggy back so dont come at me with the AEM fic cause I want my shit to be down and Dirty.
ShipyardWelder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
aftermarket, application, back, boosted, car, cars, ecu, engine, factory, fuel, ignition, maf, move, power, problem, question, questions, sensors, starting, stock, tune, tuning, turbo, uni, work

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Club4G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G Forums - 2006-2012 Eclipse Authority forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Real Name
What name do you go by?
Location
Where you live.
Type of Car
Year/Model/Trim
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger