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Tuning and Electronics This forum is for tuning devices for the 4g eclipse from piggyback systems to full Stand Alones, Fuel Controllers, EGT readings, Data logging, PCM tuning, Air/Fuel readings and data. Discussions of Installations, Wiring & Tuning.


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Old September 23rd, 2009, 01:34 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BrianJ View Post
I'll take a look at the RA manual if you can get it to me...

Also, go take a picture of the ecu plugs even though they're plugged in...I'll be able to tell what kind they are.

If you have the same MAF sensor as us, then yes, they would've had trouble with the FIC. I've got special circuitry built-in to my harnesses that allow you to properly interface that MAF sensor. I'm curious if anyone tried the FIC and DID NOT hook up the maf line...? Probably would've worked fine if they did...

At any rate...I really need to see those ECU plugs to see if they are the one's I have the PnP terminals for...and as for the MAF sensor, I can make that work.

Brian
OK. Got the pics, hope they work for you. If not, give me till tomorrow morning (I just got off from work and I'm need of a good rest) and I'll take the ecu out without unplugging it to take better pics.

I just need 2 know where to send them. I can't upload jpeg's here.
PM me... or I can upload them to cardomain and you check them out from there... OK, pics at:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2667426/6 at the bottom.

EDIT: Direct links to pics:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0270_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0271_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0272_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0273_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0274_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0275_large.jpg


From what I've read, they tried the FIC directly into the MAF wire (white/red for the RA) with no success. There was something about not making any changes in output voltage and misbehavior from the car itself with random misfire, CEL's coming up, that sort of thing. The fact is that, not many people have tried this, so everyone that reads about it just post in forums that it won't work because a friend, of a friend, of a friend, etc., said it wouldn't. Locally, people here tend to go the cheapest way possible with those magical manipulation of sensors by touch (i.e. cam sensor and crank sensor adjusment, which cost nothing but a little time to do, washers in the exhaust piping, unplugging vaccum lines, and a lot of shit like that) and then testing them on the "Butt Dyno" to say "You can feel the kick".

I bought the Federal Emissions ECU to solve my Cali ECU problem, which was close to $200. I can get a new FIC (6, right?) for about $350, and I don't know how much you would charge me for the PnP harness. All of this will probably add up to what RRE charges for the 4G AEM kit, but I don't have a 4G and I'm trying to get as far as I can with this. At the end, if it's possible, a whole new range of customers will line up for this solution (RA owners I mean), but if it doesn't I think I'll probably get half of what I've spent back, probably sell the car and just get one that I can do a lot with (not anytime soon though)...

As for the FSM, it's about 300MB... Do you know of an easy way for me to send this to you? Let me know...
Carlos

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Old September 23rd, 2009, 11:37 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 11:58 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Ok...those plugs are definitely not the same as the 4G...however, that doesn't mean much right now. You have a few options...I can find out what plugs they are and see if they're available individually (most likely not cost effective...but it's possible), or, if nothing else, I can get the terminals for the plugs and you can swap the pins like we do on the 4G. A third option would be for me to just make you a flying lead harness from the FIC to the ECU and you would have to cut and splice just like you normally would have to do. Only difference would be that the harness would already be completed, labeled, and ready to go WITH the MAF circuitry built-in. If you wanted, I could also put plugs on the ECU side so that you could easily remove the harness and plug the stock wires back in quickly.

Bottom line is that we can work it out a number of ways...but I'm sure the FIC will work, just that no one knew how to get it to interface the MAF properly...

Find a way to get that service manual to me...send it in the mail if you have to...let me know...

brian
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 12:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot!!!
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 12:47 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Ok...those plugs are definitely not the same as the 4G...however, that doesn't mean much right now. You have a few options...I can find out what plugs they are and see if they're available individually (most likely not cost effective...but it's possible), or, if nothing else, I can get the terminals for the plugs and you can swap the pins like we do on the 4G. A third option would be for me to just make you a flying lead harness from the FIC to the ECU and you would have to cut and splice just like you normally would have to do. Only difference would be that the harness would already be completed, labeled, and ready to go WITH the MAF circuitry built-in. If you wanted, I could also put plugs on the ECU side so that you could easily remove the harness and plug the stock wires back in quickly.

Bottom line is that we can work it out a number of ways...but I'm sure the FIC will work, just that no one knew how to get it to interface the MAF properly...

Find a way to get that service manual to me...send it in the mail if you have to...let me know...

brian
As for the plugs, I was thinking that it would not be cost effective as well since I believe you'd have to buy 100 or more to actually make an order. Also, I don't mind splicing or cutting into the wires, so not having the plugs isn't the issue here. What I need to do is get the circuitry you created to interface with the 4G MAF which now we know is the same for my RA, which means that the Karmann Vortex stuff said before is not the situation here. I don't have the FIC yet, but I'm in the process of getting the $$$ to get it, and if you guys made it work in the 4G, I don't see why it wouldn't work in the RA having the same circuitry and MAF sensor as the eclipse.
I bet Split Second did find the way to interface, but they don't sell the FIC!!!
Let me see if I can get a break at work to figure out how to send you the FSM. I'll be out from work at 10pm or so, so I'll also check the possibility of creating a torrent for you to download, or a space I have for website which I haven't used in a while.
Talk to you later,
Carlos
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 01:34 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Well, if you don't mind that then I could make a real nice flying lead harness for you, completely labeled, with the MAF circuit built in...you'll just have to buy the FIC and send me the pigtail harness that comes with it...I'll attach that to your harness and you'll be good to go. I'll just need some dimensions from you, like where the ecu is and where the FIC will be inside the car, etc.etc.
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 11:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Well, if you don't mind that then I could make a real nice flying lead harness for you, completely labeled, with the MAF circuit built in...you'll just have to buy the FIC and send me the pigtail harness that comes with it...I'll attach that to your harness and you'll be good to go. I'll just need some dimensions from you, like where the ecu is and where the FIC will be inside the car, etc.etc.
Back from work, free till 10pm Saturday, so let's make it count...

That'll be fine, once I get the FIC. So, we've solved most of the issues that were bothering me before making the decision on going with the FIC. I'm still trying to find a way to get the FSM to you, and all that's left is pricing...

I know you will take your time and money to make this happen, and I'm not looking for a free ride. How much would you charge me for that "Flying Lead Harness"(answer via PM)? Remember, I'm being the guinea pig here, so please treat me well. If this doesn't work (which I don't think will happen), I would probably place everything for sale at eBay or something like that just to make sure I get some of the investment back. If it does work, your name would placed by me on every forum I find this issue. Us RA owners have been looking for something like this, and most of the guys I know have one are like me, not caring 'bout splicing or cutting, as long as it works. This would be a great breakthrough (alongside the reflash if you don't wanna go piggy) for the Lancer RA and will open new opportunities that I know won't be taken for granted.

Do you have a torrent client software, i.e. utorrent? I've uploaded the FSM as a torrent, so I will leave my PC on for you to download from it. Click this link: 2006 Lancer Service Manual : Books > Manuals - Mininova where you'll have direct access, but you need utorrent (or something like it, but this is the one I've been using for a while and it works fine). Once you click on the link, choose open, not save, then it'll start downloading through utorrent. (If this option is in any way wrong according to forum rules, please let me know so I can remove the info)

Need anything else from me? Remember, guinea pig, treat me well, etc.
PM me...

Carlos
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Old September 24th, 2009, 04:25 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I'm downlaoding the manual now...but damn, it says there's like 10 hours left...??? Anyway, it's downloading...so we'll see what's up when I get it...

*EDIT* Yeah, I'm not sure this torrent thing is going to work...it keeps stopping, and saying it's going to take weeks to finish the download...the file is only 248Meg on my connection that should only take a few minutes to download...
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Old September 24th, 2009, 07:31 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I'm downlaoding the manual now...but damn, it says there's like 10 hours left...??? Anyway, it's downloading...so we'll see what's up when I get it...

*EDIT* Yeah, I'm not sure this torrent thing is going to work...it keeps stopping, and saying it's going to take weeks to finish the download...the file is only 248Meg on my connection that should only take a few minutes to download...
Sorry about that... I was too tired when I started working on this and forgot to change my upload parameters. I've set them to "unlimited" upload speed, but I'm seeing that you're not the only one downloading.

Torrents work by gathering bits and pieces of every computer with the file that has the torrent client open. Since I was the only one when it started, it will rely in my connection. It will need to be in at least 2 computers for it get more speed. Give it a while, just let it work its way through...

I'm trying another way... I'll PM you with it if I get it to work...
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Old September 24th, 2009, 11:31 AM   #50 (permalink)
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ok, I got the manual...second way was much easier...just a few minutes...

You have an issue though...I was reading in the manual, and it appears that there are actually two different MAF sensors for this car...

First thing I need to know is which engine you have...the 2.4 or the 2.0...?
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Old September 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Actually, we're WAYYYY off topic here...let's just talk in PM's from now on...thanks.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM   #52 (permalink)
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At what point would one want to bump up the timing of an all motor car? I'm assuming after you've acheived a stable 11.7 to 12 AFR at WOT and you're happy with the fueling??

My plan once I get everything running is to get the AFR where I want it first, then add timing. Is this the right approach??
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Old December 21st, 2009, 10:09 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Do the timing first...it'll lean the car out...then go in and adjust fueling. Also, 11.7:1 is still way too rich on a N/A car IMO...you'll get much better results at the 13:1 mark...we noticed a sizeable gain going from 12:1 to 13:1...I personally run mine at 13.0 - 13.3
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Old December 21st, 2009, 10:16 AM   #54 (permalink)
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So you don't think 13 is too mean? I'm assuming that would produce pretty much the best power for the car all motor though. If the car gets too lean with the FIC in control of fueling can't you theoretically blow it up?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 02:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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You'll get different people telling you different thing about what AFR to run...IMO, 13:1 is the best mix of performance as well as longevity...

As for "blowing up the car" with the FIC...my answer would be that it's really not very likely. Keep in mind that you still have your stock ECU in place with all of it's safegaurds...if you leaned it out too far, you'd start to get knock, the ecu would see that and pull timing to keep it from hurting anything. But honestly, you'd have to lean it out quite a way to see any of that activity...

It's actually kind of hard to blow up a stock motor these days with all the safety stuff in the ECU. You have to be boosting or using nitrous improperly or doing some other internal non-stock modifications...using simple bolt one and doing some fuel tuning with the fic shouldn't cause you any major issues.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 02:23 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Thats exactly what I was wondering, if I push the car too far will it know enough to pull timing. Thats good to know. We'll see how the car responds when I get to that point. Looking forward to feeling the difference!

On a side note Brian what sized holesaw should I pick up for the FIC firewall hole? Is it the same size for the uego? I'll be doing this at the same time, so I'll probly put the holes right next to each other.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 02:46 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Agreed if you go through the dyno thread and look at some of the sheets a couple of them have crazy high AFR's. The guy with the N2O on his GS hit like 16 on his AFR's and didn't blow his engine lol. I think 13 is a good place on these Motor's N/A.
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Old December 31st, 2009, 04:48 AM   #58 (permalink)
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can anyone provide me with with links for he FIC and harness needed for 2007 eclipse gs...
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Old December 31st, 2009, 07:10 AM   #59 (permalink)
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can anyone provide me with with links for he FIC and harness needed for 2007 eclipse gs...

Road Race Engineering's 4G Eclipse Parts and Performance
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Old April 24th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Alright I am currently running the MAF pass thru map you gave me Brian. With that I tend to be anywhere from 12.5 to 13.3 at WOT. I played with this a little made some small voltage changes to try and advance timing. Nothing to radical just a little bit here and there like the write up says. However it got what I felt was to rich 15-16.5 range mid rpm and 14-15 at WOT. Could that be because I am not able to manipulate the MAP currently as suggested.

Or I just pulled to much even though I didn't really pull any more than .06 voltage from any given area?
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Old April 24th, 2011, 08:04 PM   #61 (permalink)
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^^^ Actually, the higher your AFR number you are, the LEANER you are...

This is to be expected when you lower your MAF map numbers, keep in mind the MAF voltage also affects the fueling the ECU is sending. You need to go into your fuel map and add fuel to compensate for the difference...
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Old April 24th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #62 (permalink)
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^^^ Actually, the higher your AFR number you are, the LEANER you are...

This is to be expected when you lower your MAF map numbers, keep in mind the MAF voltage also affects the fueling the ECU is sending. You need to go into your fuel map and add fuel to compensate for the difference...
Your right sorry typo on my part
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Old April 24th, 2011, 08:20 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info, I will play around with the fueling then, because she was definitely pulling a little harder with the voltage adjustment. She was just leaner than I like.

Does anyone else notice a drop into the 11-12 range on decel?
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Old April 24th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #64 (permalink)
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wait so. 14.7 is actually rather lean than rich? i thought everyone was complaining cause we run like stupid rich
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Old April 24th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #65 (permalink)
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wait so. 14.7 is actually rather lean than rich? i thought everyone was complaining cause we run like stupid rich

At WOT yes
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Old April 25th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #66 (permalink)
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so does our ECU (stock btw) correct to 14.7 at WOT or idle?
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Old April 25th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #67 (permalink)
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It tries to keep you at 14.7 during "closed loop"...this is anything under 4,000 rpms or 40% throttle
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Old April 30th, 2011, 05:56 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Key word being tries mine dips into the 13's (13.5-13.7)all the time in closed loop.

Here in KY my AFR went back to about 12.3 at WOT, so once the weather calms down I am going to be working on my timing advance map again
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Old April 30th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #69 (permalink)
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That sounds too low...Mine hovers around that 14.7 mark all the time in closed loop...+/- .5 or so, but mostly hovers in that 14.7-14.9 range...
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Old May 1st, 2011, 11:30 AM   #70 (permalink)
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That sounds too low...Mine hovers around that 14.7 mark all the time in closed loop...+/- .5 or so, but mostly hovers in that 14.7-14.9 range...
|Mine is too most of the time Brian. When decel or stop sometimes it dips low
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Old May 1st, 2011, 12:34 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Something there isn't right, when stopped at idle it should definitely be in that range...an on decal it should be off the chart HIGH, above 20:1...not low in the 13 range...
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Old May 1st, 2011, 12:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Something there isn't right, when stopped at idle it should definitely be in that range...an on decal it should be off the chart HIGH, above 20:1...not low in the 13 range...
It goes high like flatlines when I am coasting to stop, then when it picks back up at idle it will go to 13.7 for a couple seconds than it will go to 14.3-14.7 and hold there
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Old May 1st, 2011, 12:59 PM   #73 (permalink)
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That's ok then...
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Old May 1st, 2011, 03:03 PM   #74 (permalink)
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so with the fic for more power we try to add fuel to be in the 11's at wot right? mine(without the fic hooked up) hit 11's anyways at wot..11.8or 11.9
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Old May 1st, 2011, 03:54 PM   #75 (permalink)
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so with the fic for more power we try to add fuel to be in the 11's at wot right? mine(without the fic hooked up) hit 11's anyways at wot..11.8or 11.9
Thats rich even for a boosted engine I would shoot for 13.1
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Old May 1st, 2011, 04:11 PM   #76 (permalink)
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ahh i see. ok so i wil actually need to take fuel away then
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 12:52 AM   #77 (permalink)
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|Mine is too most of the time Brian. When decel or stop sometimes it dips low
Gonna back Brian up on this, at decel you should see the numbers off the chart and at idle AFTER the car has warmed up it should be in the 14.5 range. If your seeing 13's AFTER warm up at idle then there's an issue somewhere. You need to check to see if your in open or closed loop at these idled 13 afr moments. If your in closed loop then your may be running too cold or too hot on your stock O2 sensors and its throwing your fuel trims off. If your in open loop at idle then you got a whole nother issue that's more then likely gonna point to you fixing your check engine light. Your AC compressor can sometimes mess with your AFR's also.
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Old May 7th, 2011, 08:51 PM   #78 (permalink)
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What are you guys seeing for spark advance under heavy accel (factory tune)?
I'm trying to figure out where my power went and I'm trying to fig out if the car is pulling timing on me. I'm around 23-24 degrees of spark advance when I get on it hard, and 10 degrees +-2 at idle.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #79 (permalink)
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What are you guys seeing for spark advance under heavy accel (factory tune)?
I'm trying to figure out where my power went and I'm trying to fig out if the car is pulling timing on me. I'm around 23-24 degrees of spark advance when I get on it hard, and 10 degrees +-2 at idle.
10 deg sounds right for idle, as for WOT I dk. I just remember that the FSM said 10 deg was about where both trims should be at idle.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 01:54 PM   #80 (permalink)
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If I remember right I think stock timing was like 21 or 23 degrees final...
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