FINALLY, Ignition advance with the FIC revealed!!! - Page 2

cianuro · September 23rd, 2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianJ

I'll take a look at the RA manual if you can get it to me...

Also, go take a picture of the ecu plugs even though they're plugged in...I'll be able to tell what kind they are.

If you have the same MAF sensor as us, then yes, they would've had trouble with the FIC. I've got special circuitry built-in to my harnesses that allow you to properly interface that MAF sensor. I'm curious if anyone tried the FIC and DID NOT hook up the maf line...? Probably would've worked fine if they did...

At any rate...I really need to see those ECU plugs to see if they are the one's I have the PnP terminals for...and as for the MAF sensor, I can make that work.

Brian

OK. Got the pics, hope they work for you. If not, give me till tomorrow morning (I just got off from work and I'm need of a good rest) and I'll take the ecu out without unplugging it to take better pics.

I just need 2 know where to send them. I can't upload jpeg's here.
PM me... or I can upload them to cardomain and you check them out from there... OK, pics at:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2667426/6 at the bottom.

EDIT: Direct links to pics:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0270_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0271_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0272_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0273_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0274_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0275_large.jpg

From what I've read, they tried the FIC directly into the MAF wire (white/red for the RA) with no success. There was something about not making any changes in output voltage and misbehavior from the car itself with random misfire, CEL's coming up, that sort of thing. The fact is that, not many people have tried this, so everyone that reads about it just post in forums that it won't work because a friend, of a friend, of a friend, etc., said it wouldn't. Locally, people here tend to go the cheapest way possible with those magical manipulation of sensors by touch (i.e. cam sensor and crank sensor adjusment, which cost nothing but a little time to do, washers in the exhaust piping, unplugging vaccum lines, and a lot of shit like that) and then testing them on the "Butt Dyno" to say "You can feel the kick".

I bought the Federal Emissions ECU to solve my Cali ECU problem, which was close to $200. I can get a new FIC (6, right?) for about $350, and I don't know how much you would charge me for the PnP harness. All of this will probably add up to what RRE charges for the 4G AEM kit, but I don't have a 4G and I'm trying to get as far as I can with this. At the end, if it's possible, a whole new range of customers will line up for this solution (RA owners I mean), but if it doesn't I think I'll probably get half of what I've spent back, probably sell the car and just get one that I can do a lot with (not anytime soon though)...

As for the FSM, it's about 300MB... Do you know of an easy way for me to send this to you? Let me know...
Carlos

DarkSidEclipse · September 23rd, 2009, 11:37 AM

BrianJ · September 23rd, 2009, 11:58 AM

Ok...those plugs are definitely not the same as the 4G...however, that doesn't mean much right now. You have a few options...I can find out what plugs they are and see if they're available individually (most likely not cost effective...but it's possible), or, if nothing else, I can get the terminals for the plugs and you can swap the pins like we do on the 4G. A third option would be for me to just make you a flying lead harness from the FIC to the ECU and you would have to cut and splice just like you normally would have to do. Only difference would be that the harness would already be completed, labeled, and ready to go WITH the MAF circuitry built-in. If you wanted, I could also put plugs on the ECU side so that you could easily remove the harness and plug the stock wires back in quickly.

Bottom line is that we can work it out a number of ways...but I'm sure the FIC will work, just that no one knew how to get it to interface the MAF properly...

Find a way to get that service manual to me...send it in the mail if you have to...let me know...

brian

cianuro · September 23rd, 2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaHunter78

Thanks a lot!!!

cianuro · September 23rd, 2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianJ

Ok...those plugs are definitely not the same as the 4G...however, that doesn't mean much right now. You have a few options...I can find out what plugs they are and see if they're available individually (most likely not cost effective...but it's possible), or, if nothing else, I can get the terminals for the plugs and you can swap the pins like we do on the 4G. A third option would be for me to just make you a flying lead harness from the FIC to the ECU and you would have to cut and splice just like you normally would have to do. Only difference would be that the harness would already be completed, labeled, and ready to go WITH the MAF circuitry built-in. If you wanted, I could also put plugs on the ECU side so that you could easily remove the harness and plug the stock wires back in quickly.

Bottom line is that we can work it out a number of ways...but I'm sure the FIC will work, just that no one knew how to get it to interface the MAF properly...

Find a way to get that service manual to me...send it in the mail if you have to...let me know...

brian

As for the plugs, I was thinking that it would not be cost effective as well since I believe you'd have to buy 100 or more to actually make an order. Also, I don't mind splicing or cutting into the wires, so not having the plugs isn't the issue here. What I need to do is get the circuitry you created to interface with the 4G MAF which now we know is the same for my RA, which means that the Karmann Vortex stuff said before is not the situation here. I don't have the FIC yet, but I'm in the process of getting the $$$ to get it, and if you guys made it work in the 4G, I don't see why it wouldn't work in the RA having the same circuitry and MAF sensor as the eclipse.
I bet Split Second did find the way to interface, but they don't sell the FIC

!!!
Let me see if I can get a break at work to figure out how to send you the FSM. I'll be out from work at 10pm or so, so I'll also check the possibility of creating a torrent for you to download, or a space I have for website which I haven't used in a while.
Talk to you later,
Carlos

BrianJ · September 23rd, 2009, 01:34 PM

Well, if you don't mind that then I could make a real nice flying lead harness for you, completely labeled, with the MAF circuit built in...you'll just have to buy the FIC and send me the pigtail harness that comes with it...I'll attach that to your harness and you'll be good to go. I'll just need some dimensions from you, like where the ecu is and where the FIC will be inside the car, etc.etc.

cianuro · September 23rd, 2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianJ

Well, if you don't mind that then I could make a real nice flying lead harness for you, completely labeled, with the MAF circuit built in...you'll just have to buy the FIC and send me the pigtail harness that comes with it...I'll attach that to your harness and you'll be good to go. I'll just need some dimensions from you, like where the ecu is and where the FIC will be inside the car, etc.etc.

Back from work, free till 10pm Saturday, so let's make it count...

That'll be fine, once I get the FIC. So, we've solved most of the issues that were bothering me before making the decision on going with the FIC. I'm still trying to find a way to get the FSM to you, and all that's left is pricing...

I know you will take your time and money to make this happen, and I'm not looking for a free ride. How much would you charge me for that "Flying Lead Harness"(answer via PM)? Remember, I'm being the guinea pig here, so please treat me well. If this doesn't work (which I don't think will happen), I would probably place everything for sale at eBay or something like that just to make sure I get some of the investment back. If it does work, your name would placed by me on every forum I find this issue. Us RA owners have been looking for something like this, and most of the guys I know have one are like me, not caring 'bout splicing or cutting, as long as it works. This would be a great breakthrough (alongside the reflash if you don't wanna go piggy) for the Lancer RA and will open new opportunities that I know won't be taken for granted.

Do you have a torrent client software, i.e. utorrent? I've uploaded the FSM as a torrent, so I will leave my PC on for you to download from it. Click this link: 2006 Lancer Service Manual : Books > Manuals - Mininova where you'll have direct access, but you need utorrent (or something like it, but this is the one I've been using for a while and it works fine). Once you click on the link, choose open, not save, then it'll start downloading through utorrent. (If this option is in any way wrong according to forum rules, please let me know so I can remove the info)

Need anything else from me? Remember, guinea pig, treat me well, etc.
PM me...

Carlos

BrianJ · September 24th, 2009, 04:25 AM

I'm downlaoding the manual now...but damn, it says there's like 10 hours left...??? Anyway, it's downloading...so we'll see what's up when I get it...

*EDIT* Yeah, I'm not sure this torrent thing is going to work...it keeps stopping, and saying it's going to take weeks to finish the download...the file is only 248Meg on my connection that should only take a few minutes to download...

cianuro · September 24th, 2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianJ

I'm downlaoding the manual now...but damn, it says there's like 10 hours left...??? Anyway, it's downloading...so we'll see what's up when I get it...

*EDIT* Yeah, I'm not sure this torrent thing is going to work...it keeps stopping, and saying it's going to take weeks to finish the download...the file is only 248Meg on my connection that should only take a few minutes to download...

Sorry about that... I was too tired when I started working on this and forgot to change my upload parameters. I've set them to "unlimited" upload speed, but I'm seeing that you're not the only one downloading.

Torrents work by gathering bits and pieces of every computer with the file that has the torrent client open. Since I was the only one when it started, it will rely in my connection. It will need to be in at least 2 computers for it get more speed. Give it a while, just let it work its way through...

I'm trying another way... I'll PM you with it if I get it to work...

BrianJ · September 24th, 2009, 11:31 AM

ok, I got the manual...second way was much easier...just a few minutes...

You have an issue though...I was reading in the manual, and it appears that there are actually two different MAF sensors for this car...

First thing I need to know is which engine you have...the 2.4 or the 2.0...?

BrianJ · September 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM

Actually, we're WAYYYY off topic here...let's just talk in PM's from now on...thanks.

Ricoswave · December 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM

At what point would one want to bump up the timing of an all motor car? I'm assuming after you've acheived a stable 11.7 to 12 AFR at WOT and you're happy with the fueling??

My plan once I get everything running is to get the AFR where I want it first, then add timing. Is this the right approach??

BrianJ · December 21st, 2009, 10:09 AM

Do the timing first...it'll lean the car out...then go in and adjust fueling. Also, 11.7:1 is still way too rich on a N/A car IMO...you'll get much better results at the 13:1 mark...we noticed a sizeable gain going from 12:1 to 13:1...I personally run mine at 13.0 - 13.3

Ricoswave · December 21st, 2009, 10:16 AM

So you don't think 13 is too mean? I'm assuming that would produce pretty much the best power for the car all motor though. If the car gets too lean with the FIC in control of fueling can't you theoretically blow it up?

BrianJ · December 21st, 2009, 02:10 PM

You'll get different people telling you different thing about what AFR to run...IMO, 13:1 is the best mix of performance as well as longevity...

As for "blowing up the car" with the FIC...my answer would be that it's really not very likely. Keep in mind that you still have your stock ECU in place with all of it's safegaurds...if you leaned it out too far, you'd start to get knock, the ecu would see that and pull timing to keep it from hurting anything. But honestly, you'd have to lean it out quite a way to see any of that activity...

It's actually kind of hard to blow up a stock motor these days with all the safety stuff in the ECU. You have to be boosting or using nitrous improperly or doing some other internal non-stock modifications...using simple bolt one and doing some fuel tuning with the fic shouldn't cause you any major issues.

Ricoswave · December 21st, 2009, 02:23 PM

Thats exactly what I was wondering, if I push the car too far will it know enough to pull timing. Thats good to know. We'll see how the car responds when I get to that point. Looking forward to feeling the difference!

On a side note Brian what sized holesaw should I pick up for the FIC firewall hole? Is it the same size for the uego? I'll be doing this at the same time, so I'll probly put the holes right next to each other.

DarkSidEclipse · December 21st, 2009, 02:46 PM

Agreed if you go through the dyno thread and look at some of the sheets a couple of them have crazy high AFR's. The guy with the N2O on his GS hit like 16 on his AFR's and didn't blow his engine lol. I think 13 is a good place on these Motor's N/A.

Must954 · December 31st, 2009, 04:48 AM

can anyone provide me with with links for he FIC and harness needed for 2007 eclipse gs...

BrianJ · December 31st, 2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Must954

can anyone provide me with with links for he FIC and harness needed for 2007 eclipse gs...

Road Race Engineering's 4G Eclipse Parts and Performance

September 23rd, 2009, 11:37 AM	#42 (permalink)
DarkSidEclipse Did u see GT on the back? Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oahu For Now Can't wait to get back to the mainland Vehicle: 2006 Eclipse GS W26 Posts: 5,603 Rep Power: 61	__________________ "Owning a 9 second neon is like comming out of the closet. At first you suprise everyone, but in the end your still gay." Ralli///Art-RRE-MagnaFlow-Fujita-Tanabe-Works-E4E-HE1-AEM-JrodsMods-Nexen-Enkei

September 23rd, 2009, 11:58 AM	#43 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	Ok...those plugs are definitely not the same as the 4G...however, that doesn't mean much right now. You have a few options...I can find out what plugs they are and see if they're available individually (most likely not cost effective...but it's possible), or, if nothing else, I can get the terminals for the plugs and you can swap the pins like we do on the 4G. A third option would be for me to just make you a flying lead harness from the FIC to the ECU and you would have to cut and splice just like you normally would have to do. Only difference would be that the harness would already be completed, labeled, and ready to go WITH the MAF circuitry built-in. If you wanted, I could also put plugs on the ECU side so that you could easily remove the harness and plug the stock wires back in quickly. Bottom line is that we can work it out a number of ways...but I'm sure the FIC will work, just that no one knew how to get it to interface the MAF properly... Find a way to get that service manual to me...send it in the mail if you have to...let me know... brian __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

September 23rd, 2009, 01:34 PM	#46 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	Well, if you don't mind that then I could make a real nice flying lead harness for you, completely labeled, with the MAF circuit built in...you'll just have to buy the FIC and send me the pigtail harness that comes with it...I'll attach that to your harness and you'll be good to go. I'll just need some dimensions from you, like where the ecu is and where the FIC will be inside the car, etc.etc. __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

September 24th, 2009, 04:25 AM	#48 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	I'm downlaoding the manual now...but damn, it says there's like 10 hours left...??? Anyway, it's downloading...so we'll see what's up when I get it... EDIT Yeah, I'm not sure this torrent thing is going to work...it keeps stopping, and saying it's going to take weeks to finish the download...the file is only 248Meg on my connection that should only take a few minutes to download... __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC Last edited by BrianJ; September 24th, 2009 at 04:32 AM.

September 24th, 2009, 11:31 AM	#50 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	ok, I got the manual...second way was much easier...just a few minutes... You have an issue though...I was reading in the manual, and it appears that there are actually two different MAF sensors for this car... First thing I need to know is which engine you have...the 2.4 or the 2.0...? __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

		Mitsubishi Eclipse Forums > Performance and Technical > Tuning and Electronics
FINALLY, Ignition advance with the FIC revealed!!!

September 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM	#51 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	Actually, we're WAYYYY off topic here...let's just talk in PM's from now on...thanks. __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

December 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM	#52 (permalink)
Ricoswave Lathe Master Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central NY Vehicle: 07 Eclipse GT Posts: 2,261 Rep Power: 7	At what point would one want to bump up the timing of an all motor car? I'm assuming after you've acheived a stable 11.7 to 12 AFR at WOT and you're happy with the fueling?? My plan once I get everything running is to get the AFR where I want it first, then add timing. Is this the right approach?? __________________ Mods: Progress Lowering Springs, Fujita CAI, Full 2.5" Stainless Exhaust, Aero Turbine 2540I Muffler, Ripp Long Tube Headers (SES Free), Dynomax High Flow Cat, Thrush Stainless Resonator, Ripp Poly Motor Mounts, Glowshift Gauge Pod and Gauges, GTech SS, Custom Glass Radiator Hose, TWM GS Short Shifter w/ custom reverse lockout, TB Bypass, Red Neon Decklid

December 21st, 2009, 10:09 AM	#53 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	Do the timing first...it'll lean the car out...then go in and adjust fueling. Also, 11.7:1 is still way too rich on a N/A car IMO...you'll get much better results at the 13:1 mark...we noticed a sizeable gain going from 12:1 to 13:1...I personally run mine at 13.0 - 13.3 __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

December 21st, 2009, 10:16 AM	#54 (permalink)
Ricoswave Lathe Master Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central NY Vehicle: 07 Eclipse GT Posts: 2,261 Rep Power: 7	So you don't think 13 is too mean? I'm assuming that would produce pretty much the best power for the car all motor though. If the car gets too lean with the FIC in control of fueling can't you theoretically blow it up? __________________ Mods: Progress Lowering Springs, Fujita CAI, Full 2.5" Stainless Exhaust, Aero Turbine 2540I Muffler, Ripp Long Tube Headers (SES Free), Dynomax High Flow Cat, Thrush Stainless Resonator, Ripp Poly Motor Mounts, Glowshift Gauge Pod and Gauges, GTech SS, Custom Glass Radiator Hose, TWM GS Short Shifter w/ custom reverse lockout, TB Bypass, Red Neon Decklid

December 21st, 2009, 02:10 PM	#55 (permalink)
BrianJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Vehicle: 06 Eclipse GT Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 5	You'll get different people telling you different thing about what AFR to run...IMO, 13:1 is the best mix of performance as well as longevity... As for "blowing up the car" with the FIC...my answer would be that it's really not very likely. Keep in mind that you still have your stock ECU in place with all of it's safegaurds...if you leaned it out too far, you'd start to get knock, the ecu would see that and pull timing to keep it from hurting anything. But honestly, you'd have to lean it out quite a way to see any of that activity... It's actually kind of hard to blow up a stock motor these days with all the safety stuff in the ECU. You have to be boosting or using nitrous improperly or doing some other internal non-stock modifications...using simple bolt one and doing some fuel tuning with the fic shouldn't cause you any major issues. __________________ Home of BilletProof Racing and the 4G SCM.1 Shift Control Module, the PnP harness for the AEM F/IC, and the Timing advance solution for the F/IC

December 21st, 2009, 02:23 PM	#56 (permalink)
Ricoswave Lathe Master Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central NY Vehicle: 07 Eclipse GT Posts: 2,261 Rep Power: 7	Thats exactly what I was wondering, if I push the car too far will it know enough to pull timing. Thats good to know. We'll see how the car responds when I get to that point. Looking forward to feeling the difference! On a side note Brian what sized holesaw should I pick up for the FIC firewall hole? Is it the same size for the uego? I'll be doing this at the same time, so I'll probly put the holes right next to each other. __________________ Mods: Progress Lowering Springs, Fujita CAI, Full 2.5" Stainless Exhaust, Aero Turbine 2540I Muffler, Ripp Long Tube Headers (SES Free), Dynomax High Flow Cat, Thrush Stainless Resonator, Ripp Poly Motor Mounts, Glowshift Gauge Pod and Gauges, GTech SS, Custom Glass Radiator Hose, TWM GS Short Shifter w/ custom reverse lockout, TB Bypass, Red Neon Decklid

December 21st, 2009, 02:46 PM	#57 (permalink)
DarkSidEclipse Did u see GT on the back? Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oahu For Now Can't wait to get back to the mainland Vehicle: 2006 Eclipse GS W26 Posts: 5,603 Rep Power: 61	Agreed if you go through the dyno thread and look at some of the sheets a couple of them have crazy high AFR's. The guy with the N2O on his GS hit like 16 on his AFR's and didn't blow his engine lol. I think 13 is a good place on these Motor's N/A. __________________ "Owning a 9 second neon is like comming out of the closet. At first you suprise everyone, but in the end your still gay." Ralli///Art-RRE-MagnaFlow-Fujita-Tanabe-Works-E4E-HE1-AEM-JrodsMods-Nexen-Enkei

December 31st, 2009, 04:48 AM	#58 (permalink)
Must954 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Vehicle: 2007/eclipse/se Posts: 2 Rep Power: 1	can anyone provide me with with links for he FIC and harness needed for 2007 eclipse gs...

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