this site more about?

[MattyGS]

Is this site more about how to mod and tune your car and all that jazz or more towards just the love for the 4g? Seems like you get flamed easily for not knowing lots about the mechanics of the car, for me I dont know lots about cars but I just love them in general, I love my car but gesh you guys get harsh at some point.

[red dog six]

I learned when you post a question......make sure you are wearing a flak vest!!! You will get an answer after about 20 posts.......lots of shots the first 19 posts!

DUCK!

Welocme!

[MattyGS]

Originally Posted by red dog six

I learned when you post a question......make sure you are wearing a flak vest!!! You will get an answer after about 20 posts.......lots of shots the first 19 posts!

DUCK!

Welocme!

yeah but its to hard to tell if they are just being assholes or messing around on here, i cant see your face expressions!

[red dog six]

HAHAHAHAHA

Some put some sort of smiley face.....your right ya never know!

[kazman]

ya dude... alot of people are just ass holes on here... there are the few tho who are pretty cool...

[Justin]

Well search first before asking a question that will cut back on %75 of the flaming, if you have a question after that feel free to ask if someone flames you for not knowing something then there just a dick and should be ignored. Do you have a spacific question you need an answer to?

[Russ]

There's plenty of love for the 4G here. Perhaps you are seeking out negativity?

[Mattman]

hey man i dont know much about the mechanics and technical stuff, love the car and love modding it. my experience is search before you ask, the averag questions have been asked and answered many times. i had a lot of problems with the search function, so do many other people, mainly out of ignorance of the correct term or something to that effect. if you have any questions feel free to pm me or someone else you feel may know the answer.

i ask a lot of lame shit via pms, in an efort to avoid the jokes. most people on here are very sarcastic, so am i, but sarcasm is easily lost over the internet and through text. if you have tough skin youll be fine, this is the internet, so always expect negative and postive comments.

and to answer your other question, ive found this forum definitely has more "knowledgeable" people. some of the guys on here really know what theyre talking about and for the most part they are very helpful. dont get me wrong some of the ones that know the most are often the ones flaming the stupid repetitive questions. which brings me back to the whole search and pm thing.

stick around the more good members the better.

[infuriated]

Warning: This post is blunt and to the point, with my honest feeling about this site.. this does not refer to all the members as there are a lot of very valuable members who have been extremely friendly and patient with me. But I hope that by bringing this new alarming trend to the attention of senior members that hopefully we can see some positive change.

Here it goes:
I regret to say this, but I fully agree with the previous statements... I left the site for around a year after being treated disrespectfully by senior members. But as I am turbocharging I really am in need of the valuable information that this community has to offer..

This website is by no means a site that welcomes new modders, it is a site that is here to accommodate a core community of eclipse owners. This is a social network more than anything.. the core members just stick around for the social aspect and to follow a few exciting developments.. but really don't want to spend their time sharing their knowledge with so called "noobs"

As a noob and first time car owner.. It came to the point were I almost felt obligated to donate money to this site to get a premium member tag under my name for members to take me even remotely serious.

Now I have to say that there are some fantastic members here that still are working hard to develop the platform and who do take the time to answer silly questions and understand that we all were noobs once.. But I try to keep my silly questions in PMs because I know I will get flamed if I create a thread with them.

So now I have decided to do something about it.. gather knowledge and create threads that people with any experience level can understand.. and hope that mods will sticky them.. the more interest I see regarding these threads the more I will make.. but until I see my injector thread stickied I won't waste my time making too many threads.. as that defeats the purpuse of me trying to organize this site so inexperienced modders don't have to search.. and when they search they actually get a valuable post rather than having to go through 50 threads with 300+ posts to find bits and pieces of information.

One day soon.. I plan on making either a wikipedia style website or a well designed and well organized website that includes a limited forum where anyone can ask the most silly questions, at which point we then reply with direct links to FAQs, Guides or How Tos that actually answer the question. I do not want to make a site that will compete with club4g and club4geclipse but rather a site that will compliment them and where people with any experience level are welcome. But this is only if there are enough people interested in helping me do good write ups with valuable information.. and sadly I honestly doubt that we will get enough people willing to do that.

Sorry that I had to be this honest, but I truly think it is time for a wake up call in this community.. because I for one want to welcome new people and see this community grow.. not scare away possible valuable future "experts" such as the way I saw Moderators calling 1SLO4G a noob after he discovered some VERY valuable information for the people who plan on going Forced Induction with this platform... all because he was new here.

[Mattman]

i agree with some of your statements. for the most part, this forum doesnt welcome the noob/unknowledgeable as well as i wish it did. we were all noobs once, im still learning, but people come here to ask questions/learn...yet they get flamed when they search and revive a thread, and get flamed when they dont search and create a new thread. how are we going to get new members with this type of reputation. i mean seriously, is it necessary for members to post "hateful remarks" in another members ride thread regarding the car? NO, if you dont like it say so, but no need to start e-thuggin, it really needs to be controlled.....or..."moderated" more.

IMO it would help everything addressed, if this site had more organization, i feel doing this would help and retain new members by making the information they are looking for readily available. Russ, what you have done regarding the main forum screen and breaking down each category is GREAT in fact most things throughout all your forums are truly impressive. Im more concerned with the consolidation of multiple scattered threads regarding the same information that people are seeking. perhaps a cleaning of BS, off topic, pointless post, which have really taken over this place.

i welcome the noobs to pm me with any questions they have so i can help them out, as im sure some of the more senior members are tired of answering the same things over and over again. but when i send someone to a link so they can "discover the answer" they have to read through a million pointless off topic post and e-thugin. then they pm me saying "umm answer wasnt found it was just a bunch of OT post and flaming, thanks anyway."

i know im going off on a rant, so tie this back into the OP, the flaming and off topic post really need to be moderated and organized. it is turning away MANY new members, and even current members are leaving.

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by Mattman

i agree with some of your statements. for the most part, this forum doesnt welcome the noob/unknowledgeable as well as i wish it did. we were all noobs once, im still learning, but people come here to ask questions/learn...yet they get flamed when they search and revive a thread, and get flamed when they dont search and create a new thread. how are we going to get new members with this type of reputation. i mean seriously, is it necessary for members to post "hateful remarks" in another members ride thread regarding the car? NO, if you dont like it say so, but no need to start e-thuggin, it really needs to be controlled.....or..."moderated" more.

IMO it would help everything addressed, if this site had more organization, i feel doing this would help and retain new members by making the information they are looking for readily available. Russ, what you have done regarding the main forum screen and breaking down each category is GREAT in fact most things throughout all your forums are truly impressive. Im more concerned with the consolidation of multiple scattered threads regarding the same information that people are seeking. perhaps a cleaning of BS, off topic, pointless post, which have really taken over this place.

i welcome the noobs to pm me with any questions they have so i can help them out, as im sure some of the more senior members are tired of answering the same things over and over again. but when i send someone to a link so they can "discover the answer" they have to read through a million pointless off topic post and e-thugin. then they pm me saying "umm answer wasnt found it was just a bunch of OT post and flaming, thanks anyway."

i know im going off on a rant, so tie this back into the OP, the flaming and off topic post really need to be moderated and organized. it is turning away MANY new members, and even current members are leaving.

Mattman I could not agree with you more, my thoughts exacly.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by infuriated

One day soon.. I plan on making either a wikipedia style website or a well designed and well organized website that includes a limited forum where anyone can ask the most silly questions, at which point we then reply with direct links to FAQs, Guides or How Tos that actually answer the question. I do not want to make a site that will compete with club4g and club4geclipse but rather a site that will compliment them and where people with any experience level are welcome. But this is only if there are enough people interested in helping me do good write ups with valuable information.. and sadly I honestly doubt that we will get enough people willing to do that.

I actually had the the Wiki server loaded on this site for awhile, but the project fell to the side. If you would like to help out, I can reopen it back up.

[Mattman]

I think thatd be a great idea infuriated if your willing to lead that, id be more than happy to assist.

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by Russ

I actually had the the Wiki server loaded on this site for awhile, but the project fell to the side. If you would like to help out, I can reopen it back up.

Russ - I would be more than happy to help out, I really want to see this community grow.. and one of the keys to that is to provide 4g owners with well organized information.. One of my hobbies is web designing, so I have created and managed several websites and forums.. so wherever you need me I am able to help.

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by Mattman

I think thatd be a great idea infuriated if your willing to lead that, id be more than happy to assist.

I would more more than willing to do so, and thank you for offering your assistance.. we will need all the assistance we can get if we truly want to make a good wiki site.

[ALBOE]

I'm no asshole

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by ALBOE

I'm no asshole

No one said you were There are a lot of very nice members around here. We just have to realize that this community as a whole needs to be more welcoming and accommodating towards the people who are new to the modding scene.
The more welcoming we are, the more potential experts we would get, the more potential discoveries, the higher demand for aftermarket parts, the easier it would be to get group buys going and the more commitment signatures we would get for companies to develop parts for us.. plus the more fun and active this community would be as a whole.
Also if we were to organize the site more, less people would ask questions that have been answered several times, and the easier it would be to find answers by using the search function... and if someone happens to ask a question we can easily refer them directly to the answer.

[ALBOE]

Originally Posted by infuriated

No one said you were There are a lot of very nice members around here. We just have to realize that this community as a whole needs to be more welcoming and accommodating towards the people who are new to the modding scene.
The more welcoming we are, the more potential experts we would get, the more potential discoveries, the higher demand for aftermarket parts, the easier it would be to get group buys going and the more commitment signatures we would get for companies to develop parts for us.. plus the more fun and active this community would be as a whole.
Also if we were to organize the site more, less people would ask questions that have been answered several times, and the easier it would be to find answers by using the search function... and if someone happens to ask a question we can easily refer them directly to the answer.

I like the group buy idea.

[360jeepboy]

Originally Posted by infuriated

Warning: This post is blunt and to the point, with my honest feeling about this site.. this does not refer to all the members as there are a lot of very valuable members who have been extremely friendly and patient with me. But I hope that by bringing this new alarming trend to the attention of senior members that hopefully we can see some positive change.

Here it goes:
I regret to say this, but I fully agree with the previous statements... I left the site for around a year after being treated disrespectfully by senior members. But as I am turbocharging I really am in need of the valuable information that this community has to offer..

This website is by no means a site that welcomes new modders, it is a site that is here to accommodate a core community of eclipse owners. This is a social network more than anything.. the core members just stick around for the social aspect and to follow a few exciting developments.. but really don't want to spend their time sharing their knowledge with so called "noobs"

As a noob and first time car owner.. It came to the point were I almost felt obligated to donate money to this site to get a premium member tag under my name for members to take me even remotely serious.

Now I have to say that there are some fantastic members here that still are working hard to develop the platform and who do take the time to answer silly questions and understand that we all were noobs once.. But I try to keep my silly questions in PMs because I know I will get flamed if I create a thread with them.

So now I have decided to do something about it.. gather knowledge and create threads that people with any experience level can understand.. and hope that mods will sticky them.. the more interest I see regarding these threads the more I will make.. but until I see my injector thread stickied I won't waste my time making too many threads.. as that defeats the purpuse of me trying to organize this site so inexperienced modders don't have to search.. and when they search they actually get a valuable post rather than having to go through 50 threads with 300+ posts to find bits and pieces of information.

One day soon.. I plan on making either a wikipedia style website or a well designed and well organized website that includes a limited forum where anyone can ask the most silly questions, at which point we then reply with direct links to FAQs, Guides or How Tos that actually answer the question. I do not want to make a site that will compete with club4g and club4geclipse but rather a site that will compliment them and where people with any experience level are welcome. But this is only if there are enough people interested in helping me do good write ups with valuable information.. and sadly I honestly doubt that we will get enough people willing to do that.

Sorry that I had to be this honest, but I truly think it is time for a wake up call in this community.. because I for one want to welcome new people and see this community grow.. not scare away possible valuable future "experts" such as the way I saw Moderators calling 1SLO4G a noob after he discovered some VERY valuable information for the people who plan on going Forced Induction with this platform... all because he was new here.

What fuel injectory thread are you talking about? Give me a link and I'll get it stuck.

[360jeepboy]

If anything I think everyone needs to read this post! I really think the snooby additude has gotten way out of hand on here, and it might do good for some of those people to read this and go... wow that is me! Then they can fix themselves.

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by 360jeepboy

What fuel injector thread are you talking about? Give me a link and I'll get it stuck.

I have sent you a pm with a direct link

Originally Posted by 360jeepboy

If anything I think everyone needs to read this post! I really think the snooby additude has gotten way out of hand on here, and it might do good for some of those people to read this and go... wow that is me! Then they can fix themselves.

Thank you 360jeepboy, I am pleased to see that you can acknowledge and appreciate the seriousness of this issue. I really hope that this serves as a wake up call for a lot of people..

[Jonrod]

its the god damn internet...

[Asian Cracker]

We aren't very welcoming but we can't make other members change their attitude. Thats like asking Jimho not to drink...it aint happening. Like Jon said it is the internet. If you don't like what someone posts Ignore it... if you question isn't answered and your thread is full of OT, let a mod know.

It's the troof.

[infuriated]

We may not be able to change their attitudes, but the moderators can start cracking down on rude replies, give out warning, delete posts etc. I would even go as far as restructuring/promoting/demoting moderators based on behavior and set some standards...

I have seen people get away with the rudest things just because they are senior members.. and in many cases the moderators encourage this behavior rather than doing anything about it. But god forbid you are a new and say anything that is just remotely wrong.. then there will be 20x posts flaming you.

The double standards, elitism and rudeness towards new members is scaring a lot of people away. You don't realize how many people come on here and quit the site because of rude behavior of senior members. Then people wonder why we can't get group buys going...

Just because it is the internet, doesn't mean that people should be allowed to be rude and disrespectful.

[Jonrod]

sounds like someone may have gotten butthurt... jesus christ i should have drunk posted in here last night but i had self control


if it makes that big a deal to you ppl here, i really wonder how u deal with others in real lyfe.

quit your bitchin.

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by Jonrod

sounds like someone may have gotten butthurt... jesus christ i should have drunk posted in here last night but i had self control


if it makes that big a deal to you ppl here, i really wonder how u deal with others in real lyfe.

quit your bitchin.

I deal with people in a professional and respectful manner in real life, thank you very much. I am always honest and to the point, which i am proud of. If there is something I am not satisfied about, I do something about it.. rather than just sit around doing nothing.

[Jonrod]

good for u then. but what im trying to say is, why are you whining about this place? this place is horrible ill admit. im only here for entertainment value. but still there are members who go above and beyond for this platform. god bless those souls... anywho. i just hate when ppl bitch and moan about internet ethics.. thick skin ppl. please. your just giving smartasses like me more ammunition to piss u off even more with. like i said, im here for teh lulz

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by Jonrod

good for u then. but what im trying to say is, why are you whining about this place? this place is horrible ill admit. im only here for entertainment value. but still there are members who go above and beyond for this platform. god bless those souls... anywho. i just hate when ppl bitch and moan about internet ethics.. thick skin ppl. please. your just giving smartasses like me more ammunition to piss u off even more with. like i said, im here for teh lulz

You just proved my point exactly, thank you

[Jonrod]

your welcome

[Slippercream]

I tend to see your point, MattyGS, Infuriated. And for the most part I agree with you to the point that I still want to see this site be the most welcoming site for all things Eclipse (a bold and naive statement, I know). I consider myself a part of the "old crew", from back in the early days of the site, where everyone could act stupid or postwhore (which we still do btw) or ask innocent questions about power, performance, modifications, or what have you. Those were the days when we hardly had to do any real moderating, because we were partly trying (at least as an individual prerogative) to build a comfy and welcoming atmosphere that you might call "home on the web"; and partly because it takes a community to make a site like this successful - build knowledge base and people will come.

But I can't help but be rude myself, but mostly toward folks who either,

1. Talk like they know shit and spread misinformation like they're absolute authority (mostly noobs), often stepping on other people's toes in the process, and
2. Keep asking the same questions to which there are very well established answers over and over again, despite the request from members to use the search function (a most common "cause" of flaming or "rude" behavior).

I tend to sympathize with those who get flamed for asking questions but get treated harshly. My personal solution is to just ignore certain threads completely. There are folks whom I know well enough not to check up on, because I know they're just plain idiots and aren't worth my time to get frustrated and pissy about (my idiot radar can't handle too much these days). However, there really is a nice way to go about asking.

I will have to say that chances are, despite the noobish questions, you will get an answer! I don't know if you haven't noticed, but compared to some other sites out there, we still treat noobs and questions rather fairly. We do have folks on the site who still take the time, go out of their way, and answer technical (or basic) questions, despite the fact that they're practically common knowledge. To those folks (and they are many!), I give much props

In summary think of this - it would be nice if we could all hold each others' hands everytime some question needs answering, or whenever something breaks and needs fixing. But the truth is, it would be BETTER if those of us who knew actually picked up the tools and learned to fish rather than expect to be handed everything they ask at will.

Here's my personal wish list ---

Instead of asking if we could be nicer to noobs, how bout we have more people who took the time to develop the deductive, perceptional, and rational capabilities to be more technical, so we could be a more self-sufficient community.

Right now, we have too many folks who dwell in the simple, trivial, common. And much more who pop up to ask the same types of questions, and then disappear without having to give it back. Is it selfishness? Laziness? Or just ignorance? I don't know. But it sure's hell makes for a good reason for folks who can help to be just as apathetic.

And hence the members who flame, do.

[Slippercream]

Originally Posted by Jonrod

good for u then. but what im trying to say is, why are you whining about this place? this place is horrible ill admit. im only here for entertainment value. but still there are members who go above and beyond for this platform. god bless those souls... anywho. i just hate when ppl bitch and moan about internet ethics.. thick skin ppl. please. your just giving smartasses like me more ammunition to piss u off even more with. like i said, im here for teh lulz

I'll still have buttsecs with you, Jon Even though you're a secsi asshole

[kazman]

^^^ lol! i agree with infuriated tho! I know im not a big contribution to this site like 360jeepboy and the rest of them but im still a member with a passion for this hobby and this car. I come here to gain knowledge and to be honest i almost walked away from this site a few months back because it gets to be more of a critizism forum than anything. There is valuable info on here but 60% of the posts are off topic or degrading... And it does scare people away, and alot of us get fed up with the rude posts that people... and it does need to be more regulated IMO. from what ive heard, other forum mods delete ANYTHING!!! that isnt to topic... this is the only forum im part so i cant say for sure, but I read it on here somewhere before.

The one thread i remember the most about OT stuff and people being dicks in 90% of the posts was when Drowzyeclipse showed us a few pictures of is car with the wide body kit and red tailights and new rims... everyone dogged on him for trying something new... i cant find the thread but i remember me and HAC got into it about his car being riced out... and the whole thread was jacked by people talkin shit.

i seriously think things need to be regulated alot more!

[infuriated]

Slipper the thing that people have to understand is not everyone have the time, money, need or want to go beyond basic mods. We have to respect that.

You used a word that that I really liked: "Innocent" Questions. Most of the people who get flamed ask simple innocent questions.

I do not agree that we still treat noobs and questions rather fairly, I have yet to see them be treated slightly fairly... The only way they get treated fairly is if they PM someone with the questions..

Also the thing about asking repetitive answers.. this would be avoided if someone were to write guides, how-tos, buyers guides, FAQs etc. that answer even the most basic questions.. and if god forbid someone asks we can refer them directly to the answer.. rather than asking them to search half an hour trying 10 different keywords, reading through 50 threads with 300 posts each..

People are here because we drive/like the same car.. not because everyone wants to learn how to be a mechanic..

[infuriated]

Originally Posted by kazman

^^^ lol! i agree with infuriated tho! I know im not a big contribution to this site like 360jeepboy and the rest of them but im still a member with a passion for this hobby and this car. I come here to gain knowledge and to be honest i almost walked away from this site a few months back because it gets to be more of a critizism forum than anything. There is valuable info on here but 60% of the posts are off topic or degrading... And it does scare people away, and alot of us get fed up with the rude posts that people... and it does need to be more regulated IMO. from what ive heard, other forum mods delete ANYTHING!!! that isnt to topic... this is the only forum im part so i cant say for sure, but I read it on here somewhere before.

The one thread i remember the most about OT stuff and people being dicks in 90% of the posts was when Drowzyeclipse showed us a few pictures of is car with the wide body kit and red tailights and new rims... everyone dogged on him for trying something new... i cant find the thread but i remember me and HAC got into it about his car being riced out... and the whole thread was jacked by people talkin shit.

i seriously think things need to be regulated alot more!

My point exactly! Moderators need to set standards, make rules etc. Moderators need to speak up when other moderators break the rules aswell.. the rules need to apply to everyone.

I have administrated and moderated countless amounts of forums/websites. Never in my life have I seen such a lightly moderated forum... This is not to take a stab at the moderators which I am sure do a lot of moderating.. it is just the style of moderating that needs to be brought to the next level.

[Ballfade]

:O!

[Slippercream]

Kaz, Infuriated -

Point taken. I can't say that I've been around too much these past few months to really have monitored all the flaming posts. I'll try to bring this up as a point among the moderating team, mainly because I can see why folks might be frustrated with the treatment of noobs. I will however say that no single person can moderate/police idiotic or stupid behavior.

I will agree with you that we tend to be light on the moderating compared to some sites. I will even agree that that our moderators censure less than in other sites you may reference. But please also consider the good side of that - we try not to Nazi the forum like other places. At least that's the idea. Freedom of speech, I think, tends to have more weight than sugarcoating.

About the post/thread deletions: at some point in time the switch was flipped to where we could begin deleting posts as part of our moderating tasks, and that may have been the time that Pandora's box was opened. But, again, without really knowing for sure, some questionable post deletes may be conceived by some as Nazi-ing, where others might see it as policing. I do recall conversations where moderators were advised not to delete posts or threads without good reason or warning. So at least comfort in knowing that moderators do not act without others looking over their actions.

Posts like these are good. I really appreciate that you bring topics like these up for discussion in an objective fashion. I hope that if anything, we can get pointers from this. We can try to improve on what we can, and be more transparent. But just please remember that we can't please everyone.

A formal technical FAQ might be a very good start.

[Panicbutton]

Wow, thats alot of reading lol Not gonna do it.

[Ballfade]

^ agreed

[Jonrod]

wow u liberals can kiss my ass. more government is bad. fuck you.

[Jonrod]

oh and lawrence...you naughty pilipino you